May 2016 - address-policy-wg - mailman.ripe.net

Agenda for APWG sessions at RIPE 72
by Sander Steffann 19 May '16

19 May '16

Hi APWG folks, below you can find a draft for the RIPE address policy WG meeting's agenda, which will take place in Copenhagen in the following time slots: Wednesday, May 25, 09:00 - 10:30 Wednesday, May 25, 11:00 - 12:30 If you have anything else you want to see on the agenda, or if we need to change anything, please let us know. The distribution of items to the two timeslot is somewhat subject to the time spent on discussion - but we'll try to stick to what's published. regards, Sander Steffann, Gert Döring APWG chairs ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Wednesday, 09:00-10:30 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- A. Administrative Matters 5 min (welcome, thanking the scribe, approving the minutes, etc.) B. WG Chair Selection 10 min - longest-serving chair (Sander Steffann) stepping down - willing to be re-appointed and serve another term C. Current Policy Topics - Marco Schmidt, NCC PDO 25 min - global policy overview "what's going on?" - common policy topics in all regions (end of IPv4, transfers, ...) - overview over concluded proposals in the RIPE region since RIPE 71 - brief overview over new proposals 2016-01 (AAWG) Include Legacy Internet Resource Holders in the Abuse-c Policy 2016-02 Resource Authentication Key ( RAK ) code for third party authentication 2016-03 Locking Down the Final /8 Policy F. Discussion of open policy proposals 50 min 2015-04 RIPE Resource Transfer Policies Erik Bais 2015-05 Revision of Last /8 Allocation Criteria Discussion phase not leading to consensus 2016-03 Locking Down the Final /8 Policy Remco van Mook - Discuss the direction of our IPv4 allocation policy in general: Is it good enough, do we want it to be more liberal, or do we want it to be stricter? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Wednesday, 11:00-12:30 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Welcome back G. Market concentration in the transfers of IPv4 space 30 min Alain Durand and Gabe Fried D. Feedback From NCC Registration Service - Andrea Cima 45 min (+ discussion with the group) - IPv6 /48 potential policy bug - Update on ALLOCATED PI/ALLOCATED Unspecified - Legacy transfers straight after Inter-RIR transfer - Why RIPE NCC asks for prefix to be announced during ASN request - IPv4 IXP assignments - LIRs collect multiple IPv6 allocations Y. Open Policy Hour 15 min The Open Policy Hour is a showcase for your policy ideas. If you have a policy proposal you'd like to debut, prior to formally submitting it, here is your opportunity. Z. AOB

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New on RIPE Labs: RIPE NCC Membership and Available IPv4 Statistics - an Update
by Mirjam Kuehne 18 May '16

18 May '16

Dear colleagues, Ahead of RIPE 72, we wanted to take another look at our membership statistics. Was membership growth affected by the Executive Board's resolution preventing multiple LIR accounts? And how will the growth in new LIRs affect the projected lifespan of the available IPv4 pool? Please read more on RIPE Labs: https://labs.ripe.net/Members/wilhelm/ripe-ncc-membership-and-available-ipv… Kind regards, Mirjam Kuehne RIPE NCC

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2016-03 New Policy Proposal (Locking Down the Final /8 Policy)
by Куприянов Роман 17 May '16

17 May '16

Dear colleagues, It's no secret that the remaining blocks IPV4 - is the object of sale and purchase some sort of business. And this is a problem. Respected community, we should think about and finally form an idea and a road map how to finally bury the IPV4 and motivation to develop the path to go to the Internet to IPV6 irrevocably. Otherwise we will be until the end of his life to stagnate and share of long-dead body IPV4. ---------- Best regards, Kupriyanov Roman (ru.enigma)

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Re: [address-policy-wg] 2016-03 New Policy Proposal (Locking Down the Final /8 Policy)
by remco.vanmook＠gmail.com 17 May '16

17 May '16

It means it's not allocated PI, in line with the other definitions in chapter 7. Remco Sent from my HTC ----- Reply message ----- From: "Aleksey Bulgakov" <aleksbulgakov(a)gmail.com> To: "Gert Doering" <gert(a)space.net> Cc: "Marco Schmidt" <mschmidt(a)ripe.net>, "address-policy-wg(a)ripe.net" <address-policy-wg(a)ripe.net> Subject: [address-policy-wg] 2016-03 New Policy Proposal (Locking Down the Final /8 Policy) Date: Tue, May 17, 2016 17:03 ALLOCATED FINAL: This address space has been allocated to an LIR and no assignments made from it are portable. What does it mean "are portable"? 2016-05-17 16:38 GMT+03:00 Gert Doering <gert(a)space.net>: > Hi, > > On Tue, May 17, 2016 at 02:01:17PM +0100, Nick Hilliard wrote: >> I'd politely like to ask the chairs to do two things: >> >> 1. declare their opinion on whether 2015-05 reached consensus > > Right now, we have no consensus to move forward. We're currently > discussing with the proposers what to do next - extend the discussion > phase (to formally include the RIPE72 AP WG meeting), or withdraw. > >> 2. use the bunfight which is inevitably going to happen in Copenhagen to >> allow them to exercise more restraint about what sort of proposals hit >> the mailing list in future so that we don't spend years wasting time >> squabbling about the dregs sitting at the bottom of the ipv4 allocation >> barrel. > > I'm hearing you, and we think this discussion is indeed necessary (to be > held on wednesday about 09:30-10:30) to see whether there is general WG > consensus to move towards a more liberal (2015-05-ish), strict (2016-03-ish), > or "leave it as it is!" last /8 policy. And then, decide what to do with > upcoming policy proposals. > > Gert Doering > -- APWG chair > -- > have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? > > SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard > Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann > D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) > Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279 -- ---------- Best regards, Aleksey Bulgakov Tel.: +7 (926)690-87-29

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2015-05 Discussion Period extended until 13 May 2016 (Last /8 Allocation Criteria Revision)
by Marco Schmidt 14 May '16

14 May '16

Dear colleagues, The Discussion Period for the policy proposal 2015-05, "Last /8 Allocation Criteria Revision" has been extended until 13 May 2016. The goal of this proposal is to allow LIRs to request an additional /22 IPv4 allocation from the RIPE NCC every 18 months. The text of the proposal has been revised based on mailing list feedback and we have published a new version (2.0) today. As a result, a new Discussion Phase has started for the proposal. Some of the differences from version 1.0 include: - Additional /22 IPv4 allocations can be only provided from address space outside 185/8 - Only LIRs with less than a /20 in total are eligible to receive additional allocations - LIRs must document their IPv6 deployment as part of the request You can find the full proposal at: https://www.ripe.net/participate/policies/proposals/2015-05 We encourage you to review this policy proposal and send your comments to <address-policy-wg(a)ripe.net>. Regards, Marco Schmidt Policy Development Officer RIPE NCC

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agreement
by Ehsan Behbahani 14 May '16

14 May '16

-----Original Message----- From: "Ehsan Behbahani" <behbahani(a)soshiant.net> To: apwg(a)ripe.net Date: Sun, 08 May 2016 17:39:44 +0430 Subject: agreement Hi we are agree about theLast /8 Allocation Criteria Revision proposal . https://www.ripe.net/participate/policies/proposals/2015-05 [https://www.ripe.net/participate/policies/proposals/2015-05] RegID: ir.shnt best regards. Ehsan behbahani

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Draft agenda for RIPE 72
by Sander Steffann 13 May '16

13 May '16

Hi APWG folks, Below you can find a draft for the RIPE address policy WG meeting's agenda, which will take place in Copenhagen in the following time slots: Wednesday, May 25, 09:00 - 10:30 Wednesday, May 25, 11:00 - 12:30 If you have anything else you want to see on the agenda, or if we need to change anything, please let us know. So far, the agenda is fairly light - if you have something you want to address, or that bothers you, let us know and we make room for you :-) The distribution of items to the two timeslot is somewhat subject to the time spent on discussion - but we'll try to stick to what's published. regards, Sander Steffann, Gert Döring, APWG chairs ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Wednesday, 09:00-10:30 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- A. Administrative Matters (welcome, thanking the scribe, approving the minutes, etc.) B. WG Chair Selection C. Current Policy Topics Marco Schmidt, NCC PDO F. Discussion of open policy proposals ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Wednesday, 11:00-12:30 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Welcome back G. Market concentration in the transfers of IPv4 space Alain Durand and Gabe Fried D. Feedback From NCC Registration Service Andrea Cima Y. Open Policy Hour The Open Policy Hour is a showcase for your policy ideas. If you have a policy proposal you'd like to debut, prior to formally submitting it, here is your opportunity. Z. AOB

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Comment on IPv4 depletion rate for proposal 2015-05
by Martin Huněk 11 May '16

11 May '16

Hello, I would also like to add my point of view on proposal 2015-05. In my opinion, this might even slow down depletion rate of 185/8. But it does not cover all cases of cheating the system. You all probably know better then me that if you want to get larger address space, the easiest way (and probably the cheapest) is to make new LIR, pay for 2 years and then transfer all its resources to your main LIR and close the new one. The proposed policy would probably lower the need for such practice a little bit, but still some space for cheating remains. I would like to see minor change in policy, such like that LIR could not transfer IPv4 resources from pool 185/8 to another LIR (or its sponsored organizations) so that receiving LIR (and its sponsored organizations) would held more than /22 in 185/8 pool. That way, it would not matter how many LIR you open, when you close LIR you would not be able to transfer resources to any of your other LIRs (in RIR region), so it would had to be returned to RIPE for new comers. Other than that, I agree with proposed policy change (2015-05). It might reduce the need for cheating system by offering the official way to expand LIRs pools, with motivation to start using IPv6 as well as limiting LIRs to monetize their (in 4 and a half years) pools so they can reach /20. Sincerely Martin Hunek Freenet Liberec, z.s.

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Re: [address-policy-wg] 2015-05 Discussion Period extended until 13 May 2016 (Last /8 Allocation Criteria Revision)
by Randy Bush 11 May '16

11 May '16

you may find reading the actual last /8 policy informative. > Last /8 is not really get affected by this policy. > - Additional /22 IPv4 allocations can be only provided from address space > outside 185/8 this is misleading or just sadly misinformed last /8 is not an address range, it is a state reached once the ncc had only that address range and continues on irrespective of additions or subtractions of space to the ncc's pool. randy

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Re: [address-policy-wg] agreement
by Arash Naderpour 10 May '16

10 May '16

Hi Sebastian, I understand your point but please consider that setting up a new LIR does not mean you are immediately eligible to receive additional /22. - allow LIRs to request an additional /22 IPv4 allocation from the RIPE NCC every 18 months. - Additional /22 IPv4 allocations can be only provided from address space outside 185/8 - Only LIRs with less than a /20 in total are eligible to receive additional allocations - LIRs must document their IPv6 deployment as part of the request - Allow LIRs to request an additional /22 IPv4 allocation from the RIPE NCC every 18 months. And you cannot transfer out your /22 for 2years, So affection to the depletion rate looks less than setting up multi LIR to receive immediately an /22 from 185/8 or encouraging small businesses in need of small blocks to become LIR. Regards, Arash Naderpour -----Original Message----- From: Sebastian Benoit [mailto:benoit-lists@fb12.de] Sent: Tuesday, 10 May 2016 5:07 AM To: Arash Naderpour <arash_mpc(a)parsun.com> Cc: RIPE Address Policy WG <address-policy-wg(a)ripe.net> Subject: Re: [address-policy-wg] agreement Hi, Arash Naderpour(arash_mpc(a)parsun.com) on 2016.05.09 23:25:56 +1000: > Hi, > > This policy may actually reduce the depletion rate for last /8, but > without it the last /8 can be used more day by day. > In the real world, even when a customer needs for example an /24, they > need to become an LIR (and get the /22 from the last /8) as their old > LIR cannot provide them with additional blocks. That also speed up the > depletion of last / 8. have you considered these when you made your objection? > > This policy is not increasing the demand for IPv4, It creates a > possibility for small LIRs to receive additional blocks (not from last > /8) based on some conditions, so no change in depletion rate from my point of view. On the other hand, there is also the possibility that 2015-05 will increase the depletion rate, not only because more address space will be handed out, but because it will make it more attractive (from a financial point of view) to set up a new LIR when you get more than a /22 out of it. That is, it might make the secondary market less attractive.

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