- address-policy-wg - mailman.ripe.net

PP - 2011-02 - Removal of multihomed requirement for IPv6
by Adil H. Baghir 07 May '11

07 May '11

Hi, I highly support the policy... Adil H. Baghir Chief Engineer, Internet Development Data & Solutions Planning and Design P.O.Box 69179 Riyadh 11423 Kingdom of Saudi Arabia Tel: +966 56 031 3263 Fax: +966 56 041 3263 Mobile: +966 542 33 66 00 eMail: a.baghir(a)mobily.com.sa<mailto:a.baghir@mobily.com.sa> [cid:image002.jpg@01CC0D02.F7D02210] ------Disclaimer------ This email and any files transmitted with are classified as confidential unless otherwise specified. This e-mail is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom this e-mail is addressed. If you have received this email by mistake, please notify the sender and delete this e-mail immediately and permanently. Although measures were taken to free this e-mail and its attachments from any malicious code infection, it is the responsibility of the recipient to check this email and any attachments for the presence of such infection. The use of EEC(Mobily) e-mail service is limited for EEC(Mobily) business use only.

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Removal of multihomed requirement for IPv6
by ABS EMEA NIC - IPA Support AT&T 07 May '11

07 May '11

Hi All, I support this proposal. To have 2 ISPs is not a cheap solution. What in case if you have 2-ISPs and you are not satisfied with offered services with one of them and decide to have only 1-ISP. You cannot use IPv6 PI space. What in case if you want to change another ISP ? You have to renumber a lot of ip addresses and update firewalls and more. I think that keeping multihoming requirement for IPv6 PI space prevent to deploy of IPv6 especially for small end users (customers). Mikael Abrahamsson, Why do you think: "50 EUR PI with no technical requirements for multihoming or other is a recipe for longterm disaster in my book." ? 50 Eur works today for IPv4 PI space as well. Thank you Best regards _____________________________________ Pavol Kovac -----Original Message----- From: address-policy-wg-admin(a)ripe.net [mailto:address-policy-wg-admin@ripe.net] On Behalf Of address-policy-wg-request(a)ripe.net Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 12:00 PM To: address-policy-wg(a)ripe.net Subject: address-policy-wg digest, Vol 1 #1313 - 14 msgs Send address-policy-wg mailing list submissions to address-policy-wg(a)ripe.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/address-policy-wg or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to address-policy-wg-request(a)ripe.net You can reach the person managing the list at address-policy-wg-admin(a)ripe.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of address-policy-wg digest..." Today's Topics: 1. On the agenda for tomorrow: 2008-08 (Initial Certification Policy in the RIPE NCC Service Region) (Sander Steffann) 2. Re: 2011-02 New Policy Proposal (Removal of multihomed requirement for IPv6) (Mikael Abrahamsson) 3. Legal counsel on 2008-08 (Initial Certification Policy in the RIPE NCC Service Region) (Sander Steffann) 4. RE: 2011-02 New Policy Proposal (Removal of multihomed requirement for IPv6) (poty(a)iiat.ru) 5. Re: Legal counsel on 2008-08 (Initial Certification Policy in the RIPE NCC Service Region) (Mikael Abrahamsson) 6. Re: 2011-02 New Policy Proposal (Removal of multihomed requirement for IPv6) (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vegar_L=F8v=E5s?=) 7. Re: Legal counsel on 2008-08 (Initial Certification Policy in the RIPE NCC Service Region) (Malcolm Hutty) 8. pointer to ietf sidr wg (Randy Bush) 9. Re: Legal counsel on 2008-08 (Initial Certification Policy in the RIPE NCC Service Region) (boggits) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Sander Steffann <sander(a)steffann.nl> Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 16:44:41 +0200 To: "address-policy-wg(a)ripe.net Working Group" <address-policy-wg(a)ripe.net> Subject: [address-policy-wg] On the agenda for tomorrow: 2008-08 (Initial Certification Policy in the RIPE NCC Service Region) Hello WG, We will have a discussion about 2008-08 (Initial Certification Policy in = the RIPE NCC Service Region) on the agenda for tomorrow's address policy = session at RIPE 62. We also will have a short presentation there about = the issues that have been discussed on this mailing list over the last = couple of days. The session is from 9:00 to 10:30 and remote = participation is possible at http://ripe62.ripe.net/live/main. Thank you, Sander Steffann APWG co-chair --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 19:30:27 +0200 (CEST) From: Mikael Abrahamsson <swmike(a)swm.pp.se> To: address-policy-wg(a)ripe.net cc: policy-announce(a)ripe.net Subject: Re: [address-policy-wg] 2011-02 New Policy Proposal (Removal of multihomed requirement for IPv6) Organization: People's Front Against WWW On Fri, 15 Apr 2011, Emilio Madaio wrote: > We encourage you to review this proposal and send your comments to > <address-policy-wg(a)ripe.net> before 13 May 2011. As has been stated by me before, 50 EUR PI with no technical requirements for multihoming or other is a recipe for longterm disaster in my book. I strongly oppose. -- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike(a)swm.pp.se --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Sander Steffann <sander(a)steffann.nl> Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 08:43:56 +0200 To: "address-policy-wg(a)ripe.net Working Group" <address-policy-wg(a)ripe.net> Subject: [address-policy-wg] Legal counsel on 2008-08 (Initial Certification Policy in the RIPE NCC Service Region) Hello WG, I asked the RIPE NCC to get legal counsel on the possibilities of a = court ordering the RIPE NCC to revoke or confiscate RPKI certificates. = Here is the full answer we received: =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The RIPE NCC is an association under Dutch law and therefore subject to = the Dutch legislation. RIPE NCC has consulted several external lawyers, = and has obtained an analysis of the legal situation based on current, = existing Dutch legislation. This analysis takes into account Dutch = Criminal, Civil and Administrative law. Certificates are directly linked to the registration of the Internet = number resources. There is no specific Dutch legislation that can be used to order the = deregistration of Internet number resources or change the registration = details of Internet number resources. Nor is there any legislation that = applies to the revocation of certificates over Internet number = resources. In the absence of such legislation, a court cannot order the revocation = of certificates. It is the RIPE NCC=92s view, based on this analysis, that the RIPE NCC = cannot be ordered to revoke resource certificates. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Of course laws can change, but the advice above may address some of the = concerns raised about the RPKI infrastructure. Sander Steffann APWG co-chair --__--__-- Message: 4 Subject: RE: [address-policy-wg] 2011-02 New Policy Proposal (Removal of multihomed requirement for IPv6) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 10:59:44 +0400 From: <poty(a)iiat.ru> To: <swmike(a)swm.pp.se>, <address-policy-wg(a)ripe.net> Cc: <policy-announce(a)ripe.net> According to my messages to the WG earlier and taking into good consideration of the point of view of Mikael Abrahamsson I oppose the policy too. Vladislav Potapov IIAT, Ltd. -----Original Message----- From: address-policy-wg-admin(a)ripe.net [mailto:address-policy-wg-admin@ripe.net] On Behalf Of Mikael Abrahamsson Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 9:30 PM To: address-policy-wg(a)ripe.net Cc: policy-announce(a)ripe.net Subject: Re: [address-policy-wg] 2011-02 New Policy Proposal (Removal of multihomed requirement for IPv6) On Fri, 15 Apr 2011, Emilio Madaio wrote: > We encourage you to review this proposal and send your comments to=20 > <address-policy-wg(a)ripe.net> before 13 May 2011. As has been stated by me before, 50 EUR PI with no technical requirements=20 for multihoming or other is a recipe for longterm disaster in my book. I strongly oppose. --=20 Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike(a)swm.pp.se --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 09:01:27 +0200 (CEST) From: Mikael Abrahamsson <swmike(a)swm.pp.se> To: Sander Steffann <sander(a)steffann.nl> cc: "address-policy-wg(a)ripe.net Working Group" <address-policy-wg(a)ripe.net> Subject: Re: [address-policy-wg] Legal counsel on 2008-08 (Initial Certification Policy in the RIPE NCC Service Region) Organization: People's Front Against WWW On Fri, 6 May 2011, Sander Steffann wrote: > In the absence of such legislation, a court cannot order the revocation > of certificates. In several countries, we've seen courts ordering ISPs to block accessibility to certain sites involving not using DNS names (denmark and thepiratebay.org for instance, or the domain names transferred to US authorities just a few months ago) or block access IP-wise (Black Internet in Sweden). I am sure there was no specific law handling this, but the laws at least in these countries are flexible enough that other laws can be used to order things around. > Of course laws can change, but the advice above may address some of the > concerns raised about the RPKI infrastructure. It's good that it has been answered for dutch law, I wonder what equivalent question would have been answered in Sweden and Denmark or the US 5 years ago. -- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike(a)swm.pp.se --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Fri, 06 May 2011 09:13:49 +0200 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vegar_L=F8v=E5s?= <vegar(a)rentarack.no> To: address-policy-wg(a)ripe.net Subject: Re: [address-policy-wg] 2011-02 New Policy Proposal (Removal of multihomed requirement for IPv6) I agree with this proposal. --=20 Best regards Vegar L=F8v=E5s Rent a Rack AS On 15.04.2011 11:22, Emilio Madaio wrote: > Dear Colleagues, > > A proposed change to the RIPE Document ripe-512,"IPv6 Address > Allocation and Assignment Policy", is now available for discussion. > > > You can find the full proposal at: > > http://www.ripe.net/ripe/policies/proposals/2011-02 > > We encourage you to review this proposal and send your comments to > <address-policy-wg(a)ripe.net> before 13 May 2011. > > Regards > > Emilio Madaio > Policy Development Officer > RIPE NCC > --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Fri, 06 May 2011 08:28:44 +0100 From: Malcolm Hutty <malcolm(a)linx.net> To: address-policy-wg(a)ripe.net Subject: Re: [address-policy-wg] Legal counsel on 2008-08 (Initial Certification Policy in the RIPE NCC Service Region) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 06/05/2011 07:43, Sander Steffann wrote: > There is no specific Dutch legislation that can be used to order the > deregistration of Internet number resources or change the > registration details of Internet number resources. Nor is there any > legislation that applies to the revocation of certificates over > Internet number resources. >=20 > In the absence of such legislation, a court cannot order the > revocation of certificates. >=20 > It is the RIPE NCC=92s view, based on this analysis, that the RIPE NCC > cannot be ordered to revoke resource certificates. There are a couple of other possible current vectors, as well as the question of future legislation. 1. Legal counsel referred to the lack of legislation that specifically mentioned revocation of certificates. Most of the existing and draft legislation I know of (not Dutch, but some EU) refers instead to "preventing access to Internet [locations/sites/content]". As a generalisation, courts will not normally order someone to do something utterly outside their power, but may order someone to take such steps as they are able to achieve an end if they are seen as being able to make a significant contribution, even if that contribution won't be wholly successful. For example, courts sometimes order newspapers and broadcasters not to publish information, even though they know the information may end up being published online. Right now it is commonly said that RIPE NCC does not have control over routing, so a court would be unlikely to order the RIPE NCC to prevent access to an Internet location. If, as a result of this policy, RIPE NCC is seen to have the capability to significantly reduce the reachability of an Internet location, a court might be willing to order it to "prevent access to the location" to the extent that it is able. No explicit mention need be made of certificate revocation. 2. Within some jurisdictions LEAs argue that Internet intermediaries are themselves criminally liable if they "facilitate" criminal activity by refusing to prevent access to an Internet location where criminal activity is ongoing, once they have been informed of the criminal activity. Intermediaries are thus induced to block access without a court order being necessary. Within the EU, network operators have special protection against this threat from the E-Commerce Directive as "mere conduits", but unfortunately registries like the RIPE NCC probably do not fit the definition of "mere conduit". In the UK, Nominet (the .uk ccTLD registry) has been induced to suspend domain registrations using this argument. RIPE NCC might in future be exposed to the same pressure. 3. Finally, new legislation not only /could/ be created, but most certainly will. The Netherlands is subject to EU law. Whether such new law would affect the RIPE NCC we cannot be certain, but I am certain that the only thing restraining lobbyists is a lack of awareness of the existence of RIPE NCC (and awareness is increasing), and a belief that the RIPE NCC has no relevant technical capability, which this policy would change. - --=20 Malcolm Hutty | tel: +44 20 7645 3523 Head of Public Affairs | Read the LINX Public Affairs blog London Internet Exchange | http://publicaffairs.linx.net/ London Internet Exchange Ltd Maya House, 134-138 Borough High Street, London SE1 1LB Company Registered in England No. 3137929 Trinity Court, Trinity Street, Peterborough PE1 1DA -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.14 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk3DoywACgkQJiK3ugcyKhSlSACdGyEFtxJUai+xrWtGB/vwZjoJ VnUAoLpgRXaghPiUTTDwF3SIoQxgCEa+ =3DeFIF -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Fri, 06 May 2011 10:23:36 +0200 From: Randy Bush <randy(a)psg.com> To: RIPE address policy WG <address-policy-wg(a)ripe.net> Subject: [address-policy-wg] pointer to ietf sidr wg as requested by gert, here are pointers to the work of the sidr wg of the ietf main page of wg == documents http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/sidr/ charter of sidr wg http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/sidr/charter/ mailing list http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sidr/current/maillist.html if i can be of help in navigation or interpretation, feel free to write to me randy, just another bozo on the routing security bus --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 11:06:44 +0200 Subject: Re: [address-policy-wg] Legal counsel on 2008-08 (Initial Certification Policy in the RIPE NCC Service Region) From: boggits <boggits(a)gmail.com> Cc: "address-policy-wg(a)ripe.net Working Group" <address-policy-wg(a)ripe.net> On 6 May 2011 08:43, Sander Steffann <sander(a)steffann.nl> wrote: > Of course laws can change, but the advice above may address some of the concerns raised about the RPKI infrastructure. > This is indeed true but misses the point that laws tend to exist either when there is an actual 'thing' to make laws about or are framed in such a way to allow the courts the latitude to include 'new things' in the same piece of legislation. Since RPKI is not currently a 'thing' but rather a 'new thing' I would be wary of relying on legal opinion that says: "There is no specific Dutch legislation that can be used to order the deregistration of Internet number resources or change the registration details of Internet number resources. Nor is there any legislation that applies to the revocation of certificates over Internet number resources." What you are looking for is legislation (as pointed out by Malcom) that can be used to restrict/control access to the internet which appears to exist at least at a European level J -- James Blessing 07989 039 476 End of address-policy-wg Digest

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2011-02 New Policy Proposal (Removal of multihomed requirement for IPv6)
by Emilio Madaio 06 May '11

06 May '11

Dear Colleagues, A proposed change to the RIPE Document ripe-512,"IPv6 Address Allocation and Assignment Policy", is now available for discussion. You can find the full proposal at: http://www.ripe.net/ripe/policies/proposals/2011-02 We encourage you to review this proposal and send your comments to <address-policy-wg(a)ripe.net> before 13 May 2011. Regards Emilio Madaio Policy Development Officer RIPE NCC

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Re: [address-policy-wg] 2011-02 New Policy Proposal (Removal of multihomed requirement for IPv6)
by Sascha Luck 06 May '11

06 May '11

I support this proposal. rgds, sascha Luck

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pointer to ietf sidr wg
by Randy Bush 06 May '11

06 May '11

as requested by gert, here are pointers to the work of the sidr wg of the ietf main page of wg == documents http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/sidr/ charter of sidr wg http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/sidr/charter/ mailing list http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sidr/current/maillist.html if i can be of help in navigation or interpretation, feel free to write to me randy, just another bozo on the routing security bus

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RE: [address-policy-wg] 2011-02 New Policy Proposal (Removal of multihomed requirement for IPv6)
by poty＠iiat.ru 06 May '11

06 May '11

According to my messages to the WG earlier and taking into good consideration of the point of view of Mikael Abrahamsson I oppose the policy too. Vladislav Potapov IIAT, Ltd. -----Original Message----- From: address-policy-wg-admin(a)ripe.net [mailto:address-policy-wg-admin@ripe.net] On Behalf Of Mikael Abrahamsson Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 9:30 PM To: address-policy-wg(a)ripe.net Cc: policy-announce(a)ripe.net Subject: Re: [address-policy-wg] 2011-02 New Policy Proposal (Removal of multihomed requirement for IPv6) On Fri, 15 Apr 2011, Emilio Madaio wrote: > We encourage you to review this proposal and send your comments to > <address-policy-wg(a)ripe.net> before 13 May 2011. As has been stated by me before, 50 EUR PI with no technical requirements for multihoming or other is a recipe for longterm disaster in my book. I strongly oppose. -- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike(a)swm.pp.se

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On the agenda for tomorrow: 2008-08 (Initial Certification Policy in the RIPE NCC Service Region)
by Sander Steffann 05 May '11

05 May '11

Hello WG, We will have a discussion about 2008-08 (Initial Certification Policy in the RIPE NCC Service Region) on the agenda for tomorrow's address policy session at RIPE 62. We also will have a short presentation there about the issues that have been discussed on this mailing list over the last couple of days. The session is from 9:00 to 10:30 and remote participation is possible at http://ripe62.ripe.net/live/main. Thank you, Sander Steffann APWG co-chair

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Re: [address-policy-wg] 2011-02 New Policy Proposal (Removal of multihomed requirement for IPv6)
by Hamed Shafaghi 05 May '11

05 May '11

I agree with this proposal. Best Regards -- I Hamed Shafaghi I I Managing Director I I Skydsl® Telecom I hamed(a)skydsl.ir I www.skydsl.ir I

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RE: [address-policy-wg] 2011-02 New Policy Proposal (Removal of multihomed requirement for IPv6)
by melchior.aelmans＠kpn.com 05 May '11

05 May '11

Dear Emilio, We support this proposal from Erik and Jordi. Thanks and regards, Melchior Aelmans KPN Mobile CARE Continuity Core Data From: address-policy-wg-admin(a)ripe.net [mailto:address-policy-wg-admin@ripe.net] On Behalf Of Emilio Madaio Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 11:23 AM To: policy-announce(a)ripe.net Cc: address-policy-wg(a)ripe.net Subject: [address-policy-wg] 2011-02 New Policy Proposal (Removal of multihomed requirement for IPv6) Dear Colleagues, A proposed change to the RIPE Document ripe-512,"IPv6 Address Allocation and Assignment Policy", is now available for discussion. You can find the full proposal at: http://www.ripe.net/ripe/policies/proposals/2011-02 We encourage you to review this proposal and send your comments to <address-policy-wg(a)ripe.net> before 13 May 2011. Regards Emilio Madaio Policy Development Officer RIPE NCC

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RE: [address-policy-wg] getting second IPv6 PA as a LIR
by poty＠iiat.ru 05 May '11

05 May '11

On 05/04/2011 11:55 AM, poty(a)iiat.ru wrote: > Why then you should apply for PI? In case of problems RIPE (for example) would speak with a single LIR, not with thousands of widespread customers. RIPE is always speaking with the LIR, in accordance to 2007-01 policy. All new PI users are always connected with some LIR. If you want obtain PI directly from RIPE, you'll pay additional money for the contract with RIPE, it's documented on the website. ----------------- Yes, but it means that RIPE is not always "speak" exclusively with LIRs. More than that, the "customer" has rights to change the hosting LIR in every moment. It further complicates things. //////////// And generally, I don't prefer crapping PA space with such deaggregation caused just by the PI-blocking policy. ----------------- It was my idea behind the lines. Most Internet players are not so bad to do illegal and harmful things. It's not only money matters.

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