- address-policy-wg - mailman.ripe.net

2009-07 Last Call for Comments (Internet Assigned Numbers Authority (IANA) Policy for Allocation of ASN Blocks (ASNs) to Regional Internet Registries)
by Ingrid Wijte 19 Aug '09

19 Aug '09

PDP Number: 2009-07 Internet Assigned Numbers Authority (IANA) Policy for Allocation of ASN Blocks (ASNs) to Regional Internet Registries Dear Colleagues, The proposal described in 2009-07 is now at its Concluding Phase. You can find the full proposal at: http://www.ripe.net/ripe/policies/proposals/2009-07.html Please e-mail any final comments about this proposal to address-policy-wg(a)ripe.net before 16 September 2009. Regards Ingrid Wijte Policy Development Officer RIPE NCC

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I wonder IP allocation of EU
by 황의종 18 Aug '09

18 Aug '09

Hi This is Bryan with KRNIC(Korea Network Information Center) I wonder IP allocation about RIPE-NCC. I found allocation of " EU" in RIPE-NCC statistics. As I know, EU is European Union and they have many countries(FR, UK, AU.....) But In statistics have "FR" , " UK", " AU" and so on. I want to know why was "EU" independent category in staticstics ? How many they have member ? If you have any idea and information about "EU" please send me e-mail. thanks Bryan Hwang

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Minutes from RIPE 58 are now online
by Gert Doering 13 Aug '09

13 Aug '09

Hi APWG folks, the RIPE NCC has published the draft minutes from the RIPE 58 APWG meeting under the following URL: http://www.ripe.net/ripe/wg/address-policy/minutes.html http://www.ripe.net/ripe/wg/address-policy/r58-minutes.html If you have any additions, or anything that is reproduced incorrectly, please let us know so that it can be corrected. I apologize for the delay in getting these published - the NCC did a great job in creating a really impressive document quickly, and then it spent quite some time in my mailbox for review :-/ Gert Doering -- APWG chair -- Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations: 128645 SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (89) 32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279

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Re: [ncc-services-wg] New RIPE NCC Procedural Document Available
by David Monosov 31 Jul '09

31 Jul '09

Dear ncc-services-wg, address-policy-wg, >From the document: [...] 4.2 Violation of RIPE Policy, Law or Contract The RIPE NCC will de-register the independent Internet number resources in case of a fundamental breach of contract by the End User, supported by a Dutch court order; or Violation of Law by the End User, supported by a Dutch court order; or violation of RIPE Policy by the End User. [...] IANAL, so please forgive me if this course of inquiry is completely misguided, but does this not explicitly put the validity of resource assignments in the hands of Dutch courts and Dutch prosecutors? RIPE NCC, as an organization domiciled in the Netherlands would at all times have to comply with valid court orders. However, prior to the existence of a direct contractual relationship with end users and this policy, RIPE NCC merely served as a custodian for a database. Challenging the contents of this database would have been a legal adventure. With the introduction of complete contractual chain through RIPE NCC, a LIR, and the end user, combined with this formal explicit policy to which the end user and the LIR must agree - isn't there a potential loophole being created for an enterprising litigant to impose Dutch legislation where it is might be favorable to their cause on foreign end users? Certainly, if this interpretation isn't overly naive, such a loophole was not the intention of policy 2007-01. Has the RIPE NCC received any legal counseling on this matter, and would it be willing to publish the opinion they were provided with? -- Respectfully yours, David Monosov Andrea Cima wrote: > [Apologies for duplicate emails] > > Dear Colleagues, > > The RIPE NCC has published a new RIPE NCC procedural document: > ripe-475, "Independent Internet Number Resources Contractual > Relationship Changes between sponsoring LIR and End User" > > This document describes the steps to be taken when there are changes in > the contractual relationship between the End User of independent > Internet number resources and the sponsoring Local Internet Registry > (LIR). It also describes the scenarios in which the RIPE NCC may > de-register independent Internet number resources and what happens to > those resources once they are de-registered. > > The new document is available at: > http://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/ripe-475.html > > Kind regards, > > Andrea Cima > RIPE NCC

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Re: [ncc-services-wg] New RIPE NCC Procedural Document Available
by Michiel Klaver 27 Jul '09

27 Jul '09

At 16-7-2009 16:53, Andrea Cima wrote: > [Apologies for duplicate emails] > > Dear Colleagues, > > The RIPE NCC has published a new RIPE NCC procedural document: > ripe-475, "Independent Internet Number Resources Contractual > Relationship Changes between sponsoring LIR and End User" > > This document describes the steps to be taken when there are changes in > the contractual relationship between the End User of independent > Internet number resources and the sponsoring Local Internet Registry > (LIR). It also describes the scenarios in which the RIPE NCC may > de-register independent Internet number resources and what happens to > those resources once they are de-registered. > > The new document is available at: > http://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/ripe-475.html > > Kind regards, > > Andrea Cima > RIPE NCC >From the document: The End User contact email addresses listed in the RIPE Database object are notified by the RIPE NCC [...] I'm not a lawyer, but from what I understand on the matter of unilateral contract termination, e-mail notifications are not legally binding by Dutch law. You need certified registered postal mail with proof of delivery. In the case of a network that seized to exist and the resources become void and invalid, e-mail correspondention with that network might not be possible anymore. When applying for resources, one has to submit company registration documents and the corresponding organisation object created at the RIPE database should contain the same data. This data should be sufficient to track down and send out notifications to the correct holder by postal mail. Please consult your legal department on this matter and update the procedures described at the document. With kind regards, Michiel Klaver IT Professional

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Re: [address-policy-wg] Spectrum and IP address reservations
by tvest＠eyeconomics.com 26 Jul '09

26 Jul '09

On Jul 20, 2009, at 4:38 AM, Milton L Mueller wrote: > I forward information about a study conducted by NERA on spectrum > auctions. > Not directly applicable to IP addresses, but has some relevance to > current discussions about attempts to reserve resources for new > entrants vs. incumbents. Bear in mind, of course, that the study was > produced by Telus, an incumbent operator, and discount for that; the > point is that we need to pay attention to the economic reasoning > underlying the finding; which is that policies designed to "help" > competitors can have unintended consequences that may encourage > conslidation and higher prices. Hi Milton, Clarifying question: what are you referring to exactly by "policies designed to 'help' competitors," and why are you choosing to reduce the question of routing and addressing system openness to this one narrow dimension? I (among others) have written a lot about the importances of keeping the door open for "new entrants," but not all new entrants are "competitors" -- nor is competition the only reason for incumbent service providers (and everybody else) to regard such openness as a critical institutional priority. To illustrate, I've never heard anyone claim that the *only* reason why it was a good idea to move from NCP addressing to classful IP was to enable competition. Ditto, the move from classful IP to CIDR; then as before, the prospect of continuous competition (including competition by emerging new entrants) was just one of many reasons to support the preservation of addressing and routing system openness. I'm assuming that whatever you find persuasive in this NERA document would not also implicate those past policy choices, because I don't think you'd find much sympathy for the idea that the "unintended consequences" of those decisions were/are so bad that they outweigh they *intended* consequences (i.e., a future with max. 256 independent addressing and routing system participants). Since most of the subscribers to these lists are not economists, it would be helpful if you could briefly summarize the "underlying economic reasoning" that you find particularly compelling in this study. If it was less onerous, I'd also request that you clarify what you regard to be the right way to balance intended vs. unintended policy choices, and "historically/experientially informed" vs. "idealized, theoretically informed" expectations about the future -- but perhaps a sentence or two of clarification on the NERA "reasoning" would suffice. Thanks, TV

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Re: [address-policy-wg] RE: The price of address space
by trejrco＠gmail.com 25 Jul '09

25 Jul '09

That doesn't answer what you believe about all those deploying v6, for whatever reasons they are deploying it ... (Reasons that vary from environment to environment) If you want me to start listing the technical merits of IPv6 I would first point you to a plethora of sources - working groups, RFCs, whitepapers, new product lines and modes of communication, etc. - are you really asking for a single email to encompass 10+ years of work by hundreds+ people? ((I can (and do!) talk about IPv6 for a week at a time and am still time-constrained to present all of the how's, why's, and what's of IPv6 ... The majority of this time is presenting IPv6 things which are technically better than their IPv4 analogs)) FWIW, I would also include entire conversations about how NAT is not a panacea, and already breaks / limits application capabilities, carries 'costs' of it's own (both literal $, packet/forwarding overhead, security), etc. Again - not a single aspect that can readily be presented in a single email (feel free to ref. BEHAVE, for example) Again - I am not opposed to efforts to make NAT more transparent / functional ... PMP, ALD, UPnP, perhaps e2e, etc. - however I see none of these as a replacement for IPv6, nor any other aspect of IPv6 that is a deal-breaker. Imperfections that perhaps need to be mitigated (whether that is a protocol or an implementation 'fix' remains to be seen) - but nothing preventing me (or anyone else) from using v6 today (or, even more common - belated vendor support - ugh). /TJ ------Original Message------ From: Masataka Ohta To: TJ Evans Cc: address-policy-wg-admin(a)ripe.net Cc: address-policy-wg(a)ripe.net Subject: Re: [address-policy-wg] RE: The price of address space Sent: Jul 23, 2009 18:26 trejrco(a)gmail.com wrote: > I continue to be amazed at statements like: > "Today, it is not necessary to deploy IPv6 at all." > > So, you firmly believe that everyone deploying (or preparing to > deploy) IPv6 today is ... What, wasting time? Wrong? Stupid? As I said: > Technically speaking , so true. > Today, it is not neccesary to deploy IPv6 at all. valid counter arguments to me should have technical content. Masataka Ohta Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

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Re: [address-policy-wg] RE: The price of address space
by trejrco＠gmail.com 24 Jul '09

24 Jul '09

And obviously you are missing my point. I am hardly saying "This is the year"... I do not think there will a single year that will define / be defined by what boils down to the deployment of better plumbing. Was there ever a "year of www", "year of SMTP", etc.? I think you misunderstand - I do have a fairly long view here, but believe that circumstances have changed | are changing. I could say the same thing about denial, but that leads us down a very non-productive path. Probably best to agree to disagree at this point ... /TJ (Although I am still interested in your (or anyone else's, for that matter) opinion of those deploying / planning to deploy / etc. IPv6 ... ) ------Original Message------ From: Masataka Ohta To: TJ Evans Cc: address-policy-wg-admin(a)ripe.net Cc: address-policy-wg(a)ripe.net Subject: Re: [address-policy-wg] RE: The price of address space Sent: Jul 23, 2009 21:19 TJ wrote: > I do ... and have seen many "This is the year of IPv6" style statements, > which is not what I am saying. > Sorry, but I wholeheartedly disagree - I see that quite a bit has changed > WRT IPv6. > The protocol itself has been tweaked, the implementations of the protocol > have evolved, the deployment guidelines for both and the understanding of > all three of those things has been escalating rapidly over the last > ~couple-few years ... So obviously, you are saying "This is the year of IPv6". If you could have had a longer retrospective view, you could have noticed that your reasoning has been repeated so many times. Masataka Ohta Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

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2009-02 Proposal Accepted (Allocating/Assigning Resources to the RIPE NCC)
by Filiz Yilmaz 23 Jul '09

23 Jul '09

PDP Number: 2009-02 Allocating/Assigning Resources to the RIPE NCC Dear Colleagues, Consensus has been reached, and the proposal described in 2009-02 has been accepted by the RIPE community. A new RIPE policy document, "Allocating/Assigning Resources to the RIPE NCC", is now published and can be found at: http://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/ripe-476.html The proposal is now archived and can be found at: http://www.ripe.net/ripe/policies/proposals/2009-02.html Thank you for your input. Regards, Filiz Yilmaz Policy Development Manager RIPE NCC

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long term useful life expectancy for IPv4
by bmanning＠vacation.karoshi.com 23 Jul '09

23 Jul '09

would like to move the discussion to: http://www.longbets.org/about seems like a better place to hold this debate than policy fora. --bill

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