Hi all, I read here long enough but usually, I do not write. Let me say just a few words. My letter is not an answer to any particular letter. It is the impression from the whole thread. I think we need to be honest with ourselves. We try to give cheaply the expensive resource. We don't have enough control to check that resource is not transferred to another recipient for money. Did you ever see that everybody follows the rules in such cases? We say that we want to give resources to newcomers almost for free but we also don't do this because of limited resources. Can you imagine a startup that just seats on the chair and wait a half of a year for the /24? (And during all this time it pays for membership without defined perspectives.) I can't. So I think there are two ways. First is selling IP addresses for their market price. I heard many times all reasons why we cannot do this. Ok. I do not try to persuade anybody to do it. I just try to be honest. The second is just to accept the [black] market of IPv4 addresses and at least try to make rules that will not cause disturbance of information in the RIPE DB (if you restrict IP transfer you just will not see this transfer in the RIPE DB but IPs will be used by another owner). BTW when we try to give IPv4 to all we slow down the IPv6 deployment. Please, do not explain to me evident things. Just be honest to yourselves. -- Taras Heichenko tasic@academ.kiev.ua