Dear Athina, On Tue, 25 Feb 2014 16:03:40 +0100 Athina Fragkouli <athina.fragkouli@ripe.net> wrote:
police, the notary, the municipality, etc). Postident is issued by Deutsche Post AG, a private company, so we are unable to accept it.
It is not a means of identification that is issued, such as an id card, but a standardized and widely used verification process. This process is designed to accommodate national legal restrictions as concerns the copying of identification documents. The process is invoked by the entity that wishes a confirmation of identity. Upon such a request a token is provided by Deutsche Post AG to the person whose identity shall be validated. Said person hands the token and their ID to an employee of Deutsche Post AG or one of their subsidiaries in order to have the ID checked. If the ID is indeed valid and matches the credentials stated in the validation token a statement of confirmation is issued by Deutsche Post AG which sent back to the invoking entity.
If a natural person wants to register Internet number resources by signing a contract with either the RIPE NCC or a sponsoring LIR, the RIPE NCC accepts the following proof of identification: - National identification card or passport
...of which you can't - by German laws - demand a copy.
- Valid driving license with photo
Not every natural person is necessarily holding a drivers license.
- Birth certificate issued by the relevant municipality, notary declaration proving the existence of the person, etc.
That might work, however I fail to see the difference between a notary declaration of the existence and validity of a document and the postident-process. Granted... the German postal service (luckily?) has no notarial authority but postident is the next best thing and it is widely available.
We believe these options cover situations where the natural persons do not want to provide their identification card or passport.
It is not about not _wanting_ to provide a copy... You are simply in violation of the law if you demand a copy of an official id. The only exemption from this law is §1 of the Geldwäschegesetz as laid out here: http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/gwg_2008/__1.html Unless the NCC engages in banking activities (for which I fail to see even the chance of a consensus) copies of nationally issued id cards are off limits.
The RIPE NCC is committed to protecting all personal information in accordance with its Privacy Statement:
To the best of your abilities. Which is ok but does not matter here. It is not about people being concerned that their data might become unintendedly available to a wider audience due to negligence on the RIPE NCC's side, but compliance with local laws.
If you have any further questions, please contact me.
dito. I hope this clarifies the nature of the issue. There are also detailed WP:de articles about this topic for further reading: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identit%C3%A4tsfeststellung http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legitimationspr%C3%BCfung http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postident-Verfahren TL;DR: Unless you implement verification processes such as PostIdent or demand notarized declarations of the validity of identities instead of demanding copies of IDs you are in violation of German law. Please keep us updated about changes in your verification procedures for German citizens and the status of compliance with German laws. As Gert pointed out, the process just applys to DAUs, which is a category that's going to disappear. I hope this matter will resolve itself thusly anyway. Kind regards, Michael p.s. just looked up the exact legal norms for your convenience: §14 and § 20 paragraph 1 Personalausweisgesetz http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/pauswg/BJNR134610009.html original precedent at the Verwaltungsgericht Hannover, 10. Kammer, Urteil vom 28.11.2013, 10 A 5342/11: http://www.rechtsprechung.niedersachsen.de/jportal/portal/page/bsndprod.psml?doc.id=JURE140002005&st=null&showdoccase=1 summary of the case 10 A 5342/11: http://www.verwaltungsgericht-hannover.niedersachsen.de/portal/live.php?navigation_id=19421&article_id=120077&_psmand=126Legal