Hi, this was discussed on the list before the last RIPE meeting, and we had it on the address policy working group meeting (presented by me). I think we mostly have consensus on this issue, but I want to present it as a formal proposal, before it's incorporated into the policy. PROPOSAL: * the minimum initial allocation size (for new LIRs) is reduced from a /20, as of today, to a /21. (If a new LIR can demonstrate need for a bigger initial allocation, they can get a larger address block. This will not be changed). * the requirement to show an immediate need for 25% of the allocated address space is removed for the "minimum initial allocation" The motivation for that is that under the current policy, startup LIRs that do not already hold address space cannot get an initial PA allocation (which would be a /20 as of today, or bigger), because in many cases, they cannot demonstrate immediate need, or prior utilization of sufficient address space. To work around this, many startup LIRs use PI address space as a start, and when they have filled enough of this, apply for their own PA again. The problem with this is that in the end, it's very likely that more than one route will end up in the global BGP table (where one PA route would be sufficient), and also it encourages lying to the RIRs (PI space must not be distributed to third parties, i.e., LIR customers). The drawback of the changes are that it's potentially wasting address space for "very small LIRs" (that would be happy with a /23 PI space and will now get a "huge" /21). The wastage would only happen for very small LIRs that will never grow to fill the initial /21. A rough calculation shows that "1000 new LIR /21 allocations" would need a /11, which is not an unbearable strain on the conservation side, judging from the total number of LIRs in RIPE land today. A second drawback of this is that people may need to adapt their BGP filters to permit /21s from the network block(s) where these allocations are made from. So the RIPE NCC needs to document this accordingly, and ideally, well in advance. Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations: 57785 (56883) SpaceNet AG Mail: netmaster@Space.Net Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Tel : +49-89-32356-0 80807 Muenchen Fax : +49-89-32356-299