On Apr 16, 2006, at 3:17 AM, Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote:
On 16-apr-2006, at 6:09, Patrick W. Gilmore wrote:
Wow, Iljitsch, I have never lost so much respect so quickly for someone who was not flaming a specific person or using profanity. Congratulations.
Well, that's too bad. But several years of trying to get a scalable multihoming off the ground (flying to different meetings on my own dime) where first my ideas about PI aggregation are rejected within the IETF mostly without due consideration because it involves the taboo word "geography" only to see the next best thing being rejected by people who, as far as I can tell, lack a view of the big picture, is enough to make me lose my cool. Just a little.
Thank you for believing my opposition of your ideas is simply because I "lack a view of the big picture". Note that it is entirely possible I believe the reverse to be true. Or perhaps you see a big picture, and I just see a bigger one. However, I probably won't lose my cool since, as I stated before, the overwhelming majority of people who run the Internet seem to see my "bigger" picture.
Back on topic, it is not just those 60 people - the "playground" appears to overwhelmingly agree with their position. I know I do.
Don't you think it's strange that the views within ARIN are so radically different than those within the IETF? Sure, inside the IETF there are also people who think PI in IPv6 won't be a problem, but it's not the majority (as far as I can tell) and certainly not anything close to 90%. Now the IETF process isn't perfect, as many things depend on whether people feel like actually doing something. But many of the best and the brightest in the IETF have been around for some time in multi6 and really looked at the problem. Many, if not most, of them concluded that we need something better than IPv4 practices to make IPv6 last as long as we need it to last. Do you think all of them were wrong?
Yes. And so does essentially everyone else who runs an Internet backbone. These are some of the "best and brightest" in the world, and most of them have been around for .. well, 'forever' in Internet terms. But decision such as these really shouldn't be decided simply because someone has been doing this longer.
I am sorry your technical arguments have not persuaded us in the past. But I would urge you to stick to those,
Stay tuned.
I'll try. But honestly, reading the same arguments over and over gets tiresome, especially when so many well-qualified people have explained the opposing PoV so well. Oh, and one thing I should have said last time: Technical arguments are important, but they are only part of the decision process. People (like me) have explained that the Internet is a business, and in addition to being .. technically unsavory to many people, shim6 is simply not viable in a business setting. Neither backbone operators (vendors) nor end users (customers) are warming to the idea. Just the opposite. (At least in general, the one-in-a-million end user with DSL and cable who likes the idea 'cause he can't figure out how to spell "B-G-P" or doesn't want to pay for it is irrelevant.) So how do you get a technology widely accepted when the majority of people involved do not think it is the best technical solution? When the majority of vendors supposed to implement it will not do so for technical -and- business reasons. When the majority of end users who are supposed to buy the service will not? Okie, trick question. :) You don't. -- TTFN, patrick