Gert: this:
Then I did see one individual waving the ETNO flag (which has no significance to RIPE policy processes, btw - it's "individuals taking
part in the discussion" not "I represent a bigger organization that you"), fundamentally opposing anything, without being willing to start a constructive dialogue or listen to the proposer's arguments.
Which is one of the big problems with the ETNO folks - they brew their statements outside the RIPE processes, and since the statements
are already finished when they are presented here, they can't adjust their position. Which is not the way to constructively go about changing policies.
Just seems plain wrong. I wonder where you got this idea. ETNO does have significance in RIPE policy processes: it's members are paid-up, card-carrying LIRs. They get to propose, react to and discuss RIPE policy issues just like anyone else. I've never seen anyone from ETNO suggest on this list anything to the effect of "I represent a bigger organization than you." I'd like to see a reference or source for that remark. The next two statements are factually incorrect. ETNO made a presentation on principles regarding IPv4 exhaustion in Amsterdam. There was tons of feedback at the microphone ( I remember because I did the presentation ) and the LIRs who are members of ETNO considered that feedback and even presented a revision of that set of principles. Instead of fundamentally opposing anything, they actually proposed a set of constructive principles to guide policy in the period of IPv4 free pool exhaustion. The suggestion that ETNO can't adjust their position is also incorrect. ETNO did adjust their position in response to the feedback and discussion on the mailing list after the Amsterdam presentation. The LIRs who are a part of ETNO, it seems to me, are linked by a set of common interests and shared circumstances and very naturally talk amongst each other on policy issues that matter to them. My problem with your attitude toward ETNO is that you seem to ignore the fact that people talk about RIPE policy development in many places; not just on the RIPE address policy group mailing list. When a group of LIRs come together and say something about policy developments in RIPE, I think the chair should be welcoming the input rather than disrespecting it in public. mark -----Original Message----- From: address-policy-wg-admin@ripe.net [mailto:address-policy-wg-admin@ripe.net] On Behalf Of Gert Doering Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 10:18 AM To: Dillon,M,Michael,DMK R Cc: address-policy-wg@ripe.net Subject: Re: [address-policy-wg] 2007-08 New Draft Document Published (Enabling Methods for Reallocation of IPv4 Resources) Hi, On Wed, Oct 08, 2008 at 03:44:02PM +0100, michael.dillon@bt.com wrote:
It is contrary to the goals of this document and is not in the interests of the Internet community as a whole for address space to be considered freehold property.
Why should an IPv4 policy document take IPv6 policy documents into account? "Different circumstances".
Same stakeholders. Same organization. And the statement does not make any distinction between the two versions of IP.
Since this statement is very much obviously in the context of IPv6, why should it mention IPv4, or point out that "differently from the rest of the document, we're only talking about IPv6 here"?
2007-08 should be rejected because no consensus has been formed and
This is exactly the point of a "v3" of this document: take into account previous discussions and comments, and try finding a consensus on the reworked document.
The argument "I reject this version because no consensus was formed on a previous version" is not a very useful contribution, in itself - if you have specific issues with *v3* (or your concerns about v1 and v2 are still un-addressed), please voice them.
When there is a huge lack of consensus in favour of a policy proposal, that proposal should be abandoned. It goes against consensus to continually make small changes to the proposal and extend the whole process by months or years. This does not help the stakeholders in RIPE and I do not believe that this is what people expect from the WG chairs.
I don't see a "huge lack of consensus". I see specific worries (that can be addressed), and I did see some statements of support. Then I did see one individual waving the ETNO flag (which has no significance to RIPE policy processes, btw - it's "individuals taking part in the discussion" not "I represent a bigger organization that you"), fundamentally opposing anything, without being willing to start a constructive dialogue or listen to the proposer's arguments. Which is one of the big problems with the ETNO folks - they brew their statements outside the RIPE processes, and since the statements are already finished when they are presented here, they can't adjust their position. Which is not the way to constructively go about changing policies.
But you asked for specific issues.
Thanks! I leave it to the proposers of the protocol to answer these. Gert Doering -- APWG chairs -- Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations: 128645 SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (89) 32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279