Conflict over right to use IP addresses in The Netherlands
Hi, FYI: There is a conflict in The Netherlands about who can use certain IP addresses. When the company DIS Hosting went bankrupt, they were bought by Real Hosting. Real Hosting is now the holder of the IP blocks previously used by DIS Hosting. Now it turns out that another company, Fiberworld, is using IP space from this block... Real Hosting and Fiberworld could not come to an agreement about the ownership / transfer of those IP addresses, so Fiberworld started a lawsuit. A judge has ruled that Fiberworld must be allowed the use of the IP addresses for 30 days, so they have time to prove they have the right to use those addresses. An article about this (in Dutch): http://www.ispam.nl/archives/1703/rechtszaak-om-ip-adressen-van-dis-hosting/ - Sander
At 10:38 AM 12-03-08 +0100, Sander Steffann wrote: If the RIPE (and other RIR) documentation on IP allocation where to be clear on these type of matters, these issues would not reach court. -Hank
Hi,
FYI: There is a conflict in The Netherlands about who can use certain IP addresses.
When the company DIS Hosting went bankrupt, they were bought by Real Hosting. Real Hosting is now the holder of the IP blocks previously used by DIS Hosting. Now it turns out that another company, Fiberworld, is using IP space from this block... Real Hosting and Fiberworld could not come to an agreement about the ownership / transfer of those IP addresses, so Fiberworld started a lawsuit. A judge has ruled that Fiberworld must be allowed the use of the IP addresses for 30 days, so they have time to prove they have the right to use those addresses.
An article about this (in Dutch): http://www.ispam.nl/archives/1703/rechtszaak-om-ip-adressen-van-dis-hosting/
- Sander
Hi, Op 12 mrt 2008, om 10:40 heeft Hank Nussbacher het volgende geschreven:
If the RIPE (and other RIR) documentation on IP allocation where to be clear on these type of matters, these issues would not reach court.
Unfortunately I don't know if this is ERX, PA or PI space. I think that for PA and PI space the policy is clear enough. PA space stays with the LIR, and PI can not be assigned to other organisations. The policy even states that a contract is required between the LIR and the end-user to make clear that the end-user is required to return the address space when they leave the LIR. I just hope that the judge respects the RIPE policies. Sander
On Mar 12, 2008, at 10:55 AM, Sander Steffann wrote:
Hi,
Op 12 mrt 2008, om 10:40 heeft Hank Nussbacher het volgende geschreven:
If the RIPE (and other RIR) documentation on IP allocation where to be clear on these type of matters, these issues would not reach court.
Unfortunately I don't know if this is ERX, PA or PI space. I think that for PA and PI space the policy is clear enough. PA space stays with the LIR, and PI can not be assigned to other organisations. The policy even states that a contract is required between the LIR and the end-user to make clear that the end-user is required to return the address space when they leave the LIR.
I just hope that the judge respects the RIPE policies.
Knowing some of the background, this is messy. Some observations: - the original holder is bankrupt, so it seems the standard service agremeent, article 8.x applies, which means closure. - the merger/closure procdure makes a difference between wether or not the closing registry will keep providing connectivity, seems this is not the case (otherwise it wouldn't be a problem) - 10.2 of the service agreement states that all conflicts should be resolved using the arbitration procedure Can somebody from th NCC maybe respond on this, seems to me the judge will be out of it's jurisdiction by accepting this case as at least one party (and mybe the other) signed for ripe-321. Grtx, MarcoH
Hank and all, Very much agreed. Hank Nussbacher wrote:
At 10:38 AM 12-03-08 +0100, Sander Steffann wrote:
If the RIPE (and other RIR) documentation on IP allocation where to be clear on these type of matters, these issues would not reach court.
-Hank
Hi,
FYI: There is a conflict in The Netherlands about who can use certain IP addresses.
When the company DIS Hosting went bankrupt, they were bought by Real Hosting. Real Hosting is now the holder of the IP blocks previously used by DIS Hosting. Now it turns out that another company, Fiberworld, is using IP space from this block... Real Hosting and Fiberworld could not come to an agreement about the ownership / transfer of those IP addresses, so Fiberworld started a lawsuit. A judge has ruled that Fiberworld must be allowed the use of the IP addresses for 30 days, so they have time to prove they have the right to use those addresses.
An article about this (in Dutch): http://www.ispam.nl/archives/1703/rechtszaak-om-ip-adressen-van-dis-hosting/
- Sander
Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 277k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827
Sander and all, I can only guess that the resolution is in whom these IP addresses were originally assinged to and if when that company was bought by Real Hosting that that sale included the IP addresses as the actual property of the seller, which is or should be unlikely. Sander Steffann wrote:
Hi,
FYI: There is a conflict in The Netherlands about who can use certain IP addresses.
When the company DIS Hosting went bankrupt, they were bought by Real Hosting. Real Hosting is now the holder of the IP blocks previously used by DIS Hosting. Now it turns out that another company, Fiberworld, is using IP space from this block... Real Hosting and Fiberworld could not come to an agreement about the ownership / transfer of those IP addresses, so Fiberworld started a lawsuit. A judge has ruled that Fiberworld must be allowed the use of the IP addresses for 30 days, so they have time to prove they have the right to use those addresses.
An article about this (in Dutch): http://www.ispam.nl/archives/1703/rechtszaak-om-ip-adressen-van-dis-hosting/
- Sander
Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 277k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827
Dear all, The RIPE NCC is tracking the developments regarding the conflict over right to use IP addresses in The Netherlands closely, a ticket was opened on the 11th of March for this issue. Current status of ticket is pending as we are waiting for submission of the required documentation. Registration Services is processing this ticket by, as always, applying existing RIPE community Policy, in particular Sections 5.0 of ripe-424, "Policies and Guidelines for Allocations" and ripe-301, "Mergers, Acquisitions, Takeovers and Closures of Organisations Operating an LIR". The ticket is currently being processed in co-operation with relevant parties. Registration Services will ensure that the address space involved will either remain properly registered or be reclaimed and returned to the free pool The RIPE NCC will also continue to closely monitor the legal developments in our work field. Best regards, Flor de Maria Paredes Mattos Registration Services RIPE NCC
Sander Steffann wrote:
Hi,
FYI: There is a conflict in The Netherlands about who can use certain IP addresses.
When the company DIS Hosting went bankrupt, they were bought by Real Hosting. Real Hosting is now the holder of the IP blocks previously used by DIS Hosting. Now it turns out that another company, Fiberworld, is using IP space from this block... Real Hosting and Fiberworld could not come to an agreement about the ownership / transfer of those IP addresses, so Fiberworld started a lawsuit. A judge has ruled that Fiberworld must be allowed the use of the IP addresses for 30 days, so they have time to prove they have the right to use those addresses.
An article about this (in Dutch): http://www.ispam.nl/archives/1703/rechtszaak-om-ip-adressen-van-dis-hosting/
- Sander
Regards,
Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 277k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln
"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt
"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827
participants (5)
-
Flor Paredes -
Hank Nussbacher -
Jeffrey A. Williams -
Marco Hogewoning -
Sander Steffann