It has been a while that I was in LEA, but I remember this same complaint from the 00s. A LEA-RIPE NCC working group was started circa 2008 and that led to a lot better understanding of each others competences and information that could be shared. Like myself, all these people are now in other positions. So, without me knowing what is asked by whom, a renewed effort could be the answer.

@Michele @Serge. Yes, at times I hear exasperation from law makers as well. The fact that this very WG is discussing its future remit, if there is one at all, may well be one of the causes of this exasperation. Self-regulation does mean just that. It should not equate inactivity. The alternative is regulation. In more and more stages of society in general, this is becoming the case. The Internet already is and will not be an exception. There's still a chance to self-regulate.

Kind regards,

Wout de Natris


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De Natris Consult

Kamerlingh Onnesstraat 43                                                        Tel: +31 648388813           

2014 EK Haarlem                                                                          Skype: wout.de.natris


denatrisconsult@hotmail.nl

http://www.denatrisconsult.nl

Blog http://woutdenatris.wordpress.com
From: anti-abuse-wg <anti-abuse-wg-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of anti-abuse-wg-request@ripe.net <anti-abuse-wg-request@ripe.net>
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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: LEA Transparency Report 2023 (Michele Neylon - Blacknight)
   2. Re: LEA Transparency Report 2023 (Michele Neylon - Blacknight)


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Message: 1
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2024 10:03:36 +0000
From: Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele@blacknight.com>
To: Suresh Ramasubramanian <ops.lists@gmail.com>, Serge Droz
        <serge.droz@first.org>, "anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net"
        <anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net>
Subject: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] LEA Transparency Report 2023
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Suresh

The devil is in the details?.

Michele

--
Mr Michele Neylon
Blacknight Solutions
Hosting, Colocation & Domains
https://www.blacknight.com/
https://blacknight.blog/
Intl. +353 (0) 59  9183072
Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
Personal blog: https://michele.blog/
Some thoughts: https://ceo.hosting/
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I have sent this email at a time that is convenient for me. I do not expect you to respond to it outside of your usual working hours.


From: Suresh Ramasubramanian <ops.lists@gmail.com>
Date: Wednesday, 10 April 2024 at 10:38
To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele@blacknight.com>, Serge Droz <serge.droz@first.org>, anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net <anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net>
Subject: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] LEA Transparency Report 2023

[EXTERNAL EMAIL] Please use caution when opening attachments from unrecognised sources.
LEA especially the computer crime part of LEA has been dealing with RIRs for some decades now?

The specifics of this case would be interesting.

--srs
________________________________
From: anti-abuse-wg <anti-abuse-wg-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of Michele Neylon - Blacknight via anti-abuse-wg <anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net>
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2024 3:02:51 PM
To: Serge Droz <serge.droz@first.org>; anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net <anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net>
Subject: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] LEA Transparency Report 2023


Serge



The report speaks about French LEA asking RIPE for data that RIPE does not have.



You then go off on some complete tangent about governments not being satisfied with tech companies.



How are the two related?



What purpose does asking RIPE (or anyone else) for data they simply do not have serve?



A much more rational explanation is that LEA simply do not understand what data RIPE (or others) have and that maybe the solution is to educate them.



I have heard from some in LEA that the amount of engagement from RIPE, ICANN etc., in the past couple of years has reduced, though that?s purely anecdotal.



Regards



Michele



--

Mr Michele Neylon

Blacknight Solutions

Hosting, Colocation & Domains

https://www.blacknight.com/

https://blacknight.blog/

Intl. +353 (0) 59  9183072

Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090

Personal blog: https://michele.blog/

Some thoughts: https://ceo.hosting/

-------------------------------

Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland  Company No.: 370845



I have sent this email at a time that is convenient for me. I do not expect you to respond to it outside of your usual working hours.
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Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2024 10:07:16 +0000
From: Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele@blacknight.com>
To: Serge Droz <serge.droz@first.org>, "anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net"
        <anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net>
Subject: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] LEA Transparency Report 2023
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Serge

As I said, it?s an odd attempt at making a point, if that?s what it is.

Regards

Michele

--
Mr Michele Neylon
Blacknight Solutions
Hosting, Colocation & Domains
https://www.blacknight.com/
https://blacknight.blog/
Intl. +353 (0) 59  9183072
Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
Personal blog: https://michele.blog/
Some thoughts: https://ceo.hosting/
-------------------------------
Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland  Company No.: 370845

I have sent this email at a time that is convenient for me. I do not expect you to respond to it outside of your usual working hours.


From: Serge Droz <serge.droz@first.org>
Date: Wednesday, 10 April 2024 at 10:38
To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele@blacknight.com>, anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net <anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net>
Subject: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] LEA Transparency Report 2023
[EXTERNAL EMAIL] Please use caution when opening attachments from unrecognised sources.

Hi Michele

As I said: They may make a point. Maybe they don't understand what RIPS
dies. But that's an assumption, and the tech community tends to
underrate authorities, so don't count on it.

Best
Serge

On 10.04.24 11:32, Michele Neylon - Blacknight wrote:
> Serge
>
> The report speaks about French LEA asking RIPE for data that RIPE does
> not have.
>
> You then go off on some complete tangent about governments not being
> satisfied with tech companies.
>
> How are the two related?
>
> What purpose does asking RIPE (or anyone else) for data they simply do
> not have serve?
>
> A much more rational explanation is that LEA simply do not understand
> what data RIPE (or others) have and that maybe the solution is to
> educate them.
>
> I have heard from some in LEA that the amount of engagement from RIPE,
> ICANN etc., in the past couple of years has reduced, though that?s
> purely anecdotal.
>
> Regards
>
> Michele
>
> --
>
> Mr Michele Neylon
>
> Blacknight Solutions
>
> Hosting, Colocation & Domains
>
> https://www.blacknight.com/ <https://www.blacknight.com/>
>
> https://blacknight.blog/ <https://blacknight.blog/>
>
> Intl. +353 (0) 59  9183072
>
> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
>
> Personal blog: https://michele.blog/ <https://michele.blog/>
>
> Some thoughts: https://ceo.hosting/ <https://ceo.hosting/>
>
> -------------------------------
>
> Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business
> Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland  Company No.: 370845
>
> I have sent this email at a time that is convenient for me. I do not
> expect you to respond to it outside of your usual working hours.
>

--
Dr. Serge Droz
Member, FIRST Board of Directors
https://www.first.org
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