I am rather late to this thread as it was just drawn to my attention elsewhere. 1. Richard Cox's concerns were entirely valid, and the abuse issues documented at http://www.spamhaus.org/sbl/listings.lasso?isp=RIPE - mostly PI / PA blocks, several as large as /15, can't be wished away by removing critics of this WG from a co-chair post. 2. I would echo Peter's concerns about this being brought up as AOB, discussed (or rather, not discussed) in overtime with very few people in the room, leading to the removal of a co-chair. A much wider consensus should have been obtained - at least by discussion on this list if not at the plenary. This was not consensus. WG participants (and I count several who are in the anti abuse community, engage regularly with RIRs at other fora, but don't typically have the budget to travel to RIPE) should have been consulted before this. Yes, nobody else had much to say about this removal, so I'll take this opportunity to comment. About Richard Cox's removal and about two other meta issues. First - the prevailing attitude I have seen from at least some participants (this is not "us vs them" in terms of routing / dns people vs abuse people .. you have colleagues in your own organizations who will disagree with your views - especially Shane, I won't speak for Paul Vixie but I am not at all sure he'd agree with you about your comment, even after its rephrase). Second - the mantra, meme, fallacy etc of the "we are not the XYZ police" that I keep hearing cited. It would be fun indeed if a bank manager sanctioned a loan for say a quarter of a million dollars (lets say comparable to an allocation for a /15) and then baldly state that he's not the document police .. That presentation about LIR deregistration is what I'd call partially shutting the barn door long after the horses, plural, have bolted. That damage's been done, a lot of IP space has been poisoned. It is high time to realize that shooting the messenger is not the best way to deal with such a situation. srs Peter Koch wrote:
On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 03:47:42PM +0000, Brian Nisbet wrote:
Peter Koch said the session was already overrun by 15 minutes and this delicate issue should be resolved at another time.
I'd like to clarify that my point was that this topic was placed under AOB _and_ mostly dealt with during overtime, which, absence of written process and procedures nonwithstanding, did not meet my expectations and experiences of appropriateness given delicacy. That said, I consider the issue closed.
JD Falk wrote:
On Dec 15, 2010, at 3:15 PM, Shane Kerr wrote:
I think that my point was that there is a disconnect between people working on anti-abuse and the ISPs, not about the Anti-Abuse Working Group or its participants. I might not have said that of course...
Many people who work for ISPs would agree. It's often simply a matter of scale and imagination....