Hi Sergey, El 8/5/20 16:28, "anti-abuse-wg en nombre de Sergey Myasoedov via anti-abuse-wg" <anti-abuse-wg-bounces@ripe.net en nombre de anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net> escribió: Dear Jordi, > There are existing procedures for that in extreme cases. I think it's now obvious that existing procedures does not work. [Jordi] I don't think so, however if that's the case, it is transversal to all the policies, not just one. It will not make sense to me to address it only for abuse cases, and not for other policy violations. -- Sergey Friday, May 8, 2020, 1:20:45 PM, you wrote: JPMvaaw> However, I fully understand that the community prefer to do things in different steps. JPMvaaw> We initially asked for the abuse mailbox. JPMvaaw> Then we added a technical validation. JPMvaaw> Now I'm asking for a better validations and make sure that JPMvaaw> the reporting is feasible. I'm not asking to verify if you handle the abuse case or not. JPMvaaw> *AND* I'm not asking to take *new* actions. There are JPMvaaw> existing procedures for that in extreme cases. JPMvaaw> JPMvaaw> El 30/4/20 9:51, "anti-abuse-wg en nombre de Serge Droz via JPMvaaw> anti-abuse-wg" <anti-abuse-wg-bounces@ripe.net en nombre de JPMvaaw> anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net> escribió: JPMvaaw> I do not disagree with this. JPMvaaw> Serge JPMvaaw> On 30.04.20 09:41, Hans-Martin Mosner wrote: JPMvaaw> > Am 30.04.20 um 02:58 schrieb Suresh Ramasubramanian: JPMvaaw> >> JPMvaaw> >> However, being in a fiduciary role - with IPv4 being traded like JPMvaaw> >> currency these days the description fits - RIPE NCC can’t not get JPMvaaw> >> involved. JPMvaaw> >> JPMvaaw> > ... JPMvaaw> >> NCC owes it to the rest of its membership and the internet community JPMvaaw> >> at large to take a more active role in this matter. JPMvaaw> >> JPMvaaw> > This. JPMvaaw> > JPMvaaw> > And as long as RIPE and/or NCC explicitly does not want to take action JPMvaaw> > when RIPE members don't handle abuse from their networks properly, the JPMvaaw> > whole issue of validating abuse mailbox addresses is moot. After all JPMvaaw> > discussion, the toothless compromise will be that there should be an JPMvaaw> > abuse mailbox, and FWIW it can be handled by Dave Null because nobody JPMvaaw> > will exert pressure on the resource holder to do anything else. JPMvaaw> > JPMvaaw> > Our problem on the receiving side of network abuse is not with the few JPMvaaw> > good-willing but technically challenged providers whose abuse mailbox JPMvaaw> > isn't working properly but with those large operators who don't give a JPMvaaw> > flying f about their customer's network abuse. JPMvaaw> > JPMvaaw> > Personally, I consider the anti-abuse WG a failure at this point. When I JPMvaaw> > joined I had hoped to see and possibly support constructive work towards JPMvaaw> > a reduction in network abuse, but apparently there are big players in JPMvaaw> > this game who are not interested in such a reduction as it would JPMvaaw> > undermine their "business". JPMvaaw> > JPMvaaw> > Cheers, JPMvaaw> > Hans-Martin JPMvaaw> > JPMvaaw> -- JPMvaaw> Dr. Serge Droz JPMvaaw> Chair of the FIRST Board of Directors JPMvaaw> https://www.first.org JPMvaaw> ********************************************** JPMvaaw> IPv4 is over JPMvaaw> Are you ready for the new Internet ? JPMvaaw> http://www.theipv6company.com JPMvaaw> The IPv6 Company JPMvaaw> This electronic message contains information which may be JPMvaaw> privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be JPMvaaw> for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and JPMvaaw> further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, JPMvaaw> distribution or use of the contents of this information, even JPMvaaw> if partially, including attached files, is strictly JPMvaaw> prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you JPMvaaw> are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, JPMvaaw> copying, distribution or use of the contents of this JPMvaaw> information, even if partially, including attached files, is JPMvaaw> strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, JPMvaaw> so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it. ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.theipv6company.com The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it.