On Fri, Nov 06, 2015 at 10:01:33AM -0500, Jeffrey Race wrote:

At present the internet is a cesspool of crime without effective mechanisms of accountability and traceability. An

As an, albeit small, part of the Internet, I take exception to this statement.

outsider viewing this thread (and the dozens of others I've been monitoring for more than a decade) would find remarkable the unspoken assumption of their discussions: how to make life trouble-free for the registration and contracting bodies, even though this makes inevitable the criminal nature of the mechanism they are charged with managing.

The internet resource management mechanism as managed by RIRs and LIRS is "of a criminal nature", do I understand you correctly?

With a proper goal in mind ("Develop our mechanisms so the internet is no longer a cesspool of crime") the kind of discussion below ("We can't consider that because it would be a lot of work and some people would become upset") would be out of bounds.

What discussion is out-of-bounds is not for you to determine, sir.

The matter of the "defining discussion goal" will have to be taken up in order to make progress on this list's putative purpose of "anti-abuse."

Had you read the charter of this WG, you would have learned that its purpose is to *discuss* abuse, not to stamp it out. And I will say again, you will NOT define what the goals or contents of discussion in this WG are. rgds, Sascha Luck

Jeffrey Race

On Fri, 6 Nov 2015 13:49:01 +0000, Sascha Luck [ml] wrote:

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On Fri, Nov 06, 2015 at 11:56:51AM +0100, denis wrote:

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Add to that all the possible language issues and I am not sure how you will expect the RIPE NCC to validate all this personal contact data with people who they have no relationship with and who may have never heard of the RIPE NCC or RIPE. Anyone who receives an email from an organisation they have never heard of, possibly in a language they don't understand, asking to validate personal information...well you know how that will be treated these days.

I've occasionally done db cleanup death-marches for customers where I've created/updated/deleted 100 or so objects in a single day. (usually with contact data relating to the LIR which does have a contract with the NCC) Is the idea seriously that someone doing this will have to field 100 phone calls or reply to 100 emails over the day?

What about the numerous LIRs who do their resource management programatically, without human input?

IMO, such actions would actually discourage proper resource management and lower the quality of the db.

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Also bear in mind a single data validation is quite pointless. What is valid today may not be tomorrow. So you cannot trust data that was validated yesterday. To have any benefit this data would have to be routinely re-validated. Given the quantity of personal data sets in the RIPE Database (we are talking millions), many of whom have never heard of the RIPE NCC, to ask them to undertake this exercise would result in the RIPE NCC being reported to many law enforcement authorities for phishing.

Not even considering the inevitable members' revolt.

rgds, Sascha Luck