my point is: its not a black/white decission. There is a guaranteed right for everyone on his/her privacy. Thats given by the declaration of human rights and is adopted into national laws and constitutents. On the other hand there is a right for you to find out who messes with your network ressources (for example by whois). So which right weights heavier? Its mostly accepted that any data that can identify a person should be protected by the users right on privacy. So I can somehow understand why some people prefer not to see their names in whois Cheers tobi ----- Originale Nachricht ----- Von: Name <phishing@storey.xxx> Gesendet: 05.05.18 - 15:07 An: anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net Betreff: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] abuse of the internet by multinationals and nation states

Because your public resource can affect the interests of others. Your network can be hijacked.

and is there someone who has had their privacy invaded because of public WHOIS information?

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] abuse of the internet by multinationals and nation states From: Tobi <jahlives@gmx.ch> Date: Sat, May 05, 2018 9:30 pm To: anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net

I don't want to defend whois hiding but you forget to mention that this does not only help criminals to hide but also protects (a bit at least) the privacy of the wast majority of "uncriminal" normal users. So the question is to "forbid" something just because it can also be abused by criminal people which probably are not the majority of affected people at all. Why should I as user not have the right to protect/hide MY personal data in whois?

Cheers

Tobi

----- Originale Nachricht ----- Von: Name <phishing@storey.xxx> Gesendet: 05.05.18 - 07:53 An: anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net Betreff: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] abuse of the internet by multinationals and nation states

...

And then there is the response of the European Union, which is to make laws that make easier for crime to flourish by hiding WHOIS information (and does nothing to solve the actual issue).

Similarly, the response of this very list has been to identify an issue and then implement a solution that does absolutely nothing to solve it.

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: [anti-abuse-wg] abuse of the internet by multinationals and nation states From: ox <andre@ox.co.za> Date: Sat, May 05, 2018 3:43 pm To: anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net

Hello,

please may I have your thoughts, on or off list, about the evident growth in the use of the internet for abusive purposes as it relates to huge multinationals and nation states?

I would like to illustrate what I am asking, with a singular example. the specific brand name should not choose to take any offense, as I could have simply replaced "Google" with Apple or with Facebook, or with Twitter, etc etc.

Here the case example: ===================

Factually: Google operates and dominates search and email in hundreds of countries all over the planet.

of late, Google turns out to be an evil organisation that uses the world and global internet, not as an international netizen, but to power and empower a specific nation state: https://news.sky.com/story/goggle-staff-protest-against-companys-work-with-p...

A recent article in the NY Times suggests that Google, and all tech companies has an obligation to empower the US military as it serves the interests of American people and that such support, development and sharing with the US Government is not only expected but to be commended.

From an American perspective this all makes perfect sense and is not evil at all.

From a RIPE perspective (and world perspective) It is evil.

Personally, I like Americans and the American people as much as I like the Chinese people, the Russians and all people from any country.

But the issue is about the Internet.

The Internet is a global network.

Use of that global network by dominant and large tech companies to empower a single country military is evil.

Further and to add to this:

Google(insert name of other multinational here) also acts as a "Police" by using their search engine and email services as a weapon against both individual people as well as other companies. There is no trial, there is no court, there is no public opinion even. There is simply the biased application of convoluted and often contradictory, sometimes psychotic, "policies"

These multinationals have become so powerful that they are able to digitally target individual people and in such a sublime fashion that it is not even obvious to most individuals that they are "targets".

The very same "policies" that have now been amended to comply with GDPR, but if one actually reads and apply logic to the new policies, it is clear that compliance with the GDPR will not be adequate to prevent the abuse of power that multinational tech companies regularly exercise under the guise of their own "policies"

So, one type of abuse is identity data, tracking and general data including fake news, the other type of abuse is to specifically give weight to negative or to specifically exclude data or information from feeds and results.

Currently this type of abuse is not regulated or even discussed much at all.

Anyway, this "invisible" exercise of power under the guise of "secret" algorithms and "proprietary" tech is extremely damaging and a powerful weapon in the hands of evil organisation(s)

Is the answer more regulation?

Is the answer to look harder at the Chinese example?

Is the answer a non free Internet?

How does society and different societies protect their own cultures, their own ways of life, their own values and preserve their own freedoms?

The abuse of the Internet by large corporations and nations states for the purposes of information warfare (and war) is an abuse issue for a RR wg to dicuss...

Andre