- db-wg - mailman.ripe.net

whois service problems
by RIPE Database Administration 17 Jul '98

17 Jul '98

Dear All, There was a problem with our whois service again this morning, Friday 17th of July between 4.30 and 9.30 a.m. The whois server was running but answers to all queries were empty. Please note, that updates were not affected by that. You do *not* need to resend your updates. The problem was caused by an error in scripts performing mirroring between the master data/update server and the whois server. This was corrected at 9.30 and fixes were implemented preventing (hopefully) this kind of problems from reoccurring. We wish to thank those of you who took the time and the trouble to notify us. We apologize for any inconvenience this might have caused. If you have any more questions, please don't hesitate to contact <ripe-dbm(a)ripe.net>. Regards, Roman Karpiuk ____________________________ RIPE Database Administration.

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RIPE NCC whois outage
by Joao Luis Silva Damas 16 Jul '98

16 Jul '98

Dear all, this afternoon at 18:00 the whois server was down for approx. 5 min. This was due to a crash of the machine caused by a kernel problem. The system is up again and the cause is being investigated. Regards, Joao Damas RIPE NCC

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New release of the RIPE Database code
by Joao Luis Silva Damas 15 Jul '98

15 Jul '98

Dear all, a new release (2.1.3) of the RIPE Database code is available for download. If you detect any problems, please send a mail to ripe-dbm(a)ripe.net The release notes for this version are the end of this message. Regards, Joao Damas RIPE NCC ********** RELEASE NOTES for RIPE Database 2.1.3 SUPPORTED SYSTEMS This release has been tested with perl5.00401 on bsdi3.1 and GNU/linux systems. Please let us know if you have problems running it on other systems. FEATURES Changed attributes ------------------ This release modifies the default behaviour of the whois daemon by not displaying the "changed" attributes in any objects as result of a query unless specifically requested to do so, by using the new -c whois query option. Updates and deletes ignore the changed files so if an update differs from the previous object only in the changed fields a NOOP will be returned. Cross notification in the Routing Registry ------------------------------------------ A new major feature in this release is cross notification in the routing registry. Cross notification works according to: 1. Whenever a route object is added to the routing registry, a check is done to see if the address space overlaps with that in any other route object in the RR. If so, a notification will be sent to the submitter of the route object. This will always happen and is not dependent on any notification attributes described below. 2. Two new fields called "cross-nfy:" and "cross-mnt:" have been added to the route and aut-num objects. The "cross-nfy" field: a) contains a contact reference, specified as a NIC-handle pointing to a person or role object, the email address of which will get the notification; b) is optional; and c) is multiple (so that more than one contact can be notified). The "cross-mnt" field: a) contains a contact reference, specified as a mntner ID referencing the maintainer to be notified; b) is optional; and c) is multiple (so that more than one contact can be notified). This attribute is used to request notifications of the addition or removal of route objects which overlap the address space of the already registered route objects in which this attribute is specified. If the "cross-nfy:" or "cross-mnt:" attributes are used in: + a route object, then a notification will be sent for any overlaps with the address space specified in the route object; + an aut-num object, then a notification will be sent for overlaps with the address space specified in each route object in which the given AS number is specified in the "origin:" attribute. The contact/s in "cross-nfy:" or the mnt-nfy/s in the maintainers referenced by the "cross-mnt:" will receive an e-mail whenever: + a route is registered which overlaps this address space; or + a route is removed which overlapped this address space. If all is well, the former will indicate the introduction of multi-homing, and the latter will indicate the cancellation of the multi-homing. It is expected, however, that the former will often indicate an error, and the latter its removal. Either way, it will be useful to know about the registration and elimination of overlapping announcements. The set of sources searched for these conflicts is defined on a server wide basis (CROSSNOTIFYSOURCES in ripedb.conf). BUG FIXES Better check for disk full conditions when writing to the database Workaround for bug in perl handling integer numbers Performance improvements, better checks on forking and misc. additions contributed by users.

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status attribute of the inetnum object.
by RIPE Database Administration 09 Jul '98

09 Jul '98

Dear Colleagues, We intend to make the status attribute of the inetnum object mandatory on Monday, 13th July next. This has been discussed and agreed previously. However, if you have software that is _unavoidably_ dependent on this attribute being optional, please contact us. The new version of the inetnum object will be: inetnum: [mandatory] [single] [primary/look-up key] netname: [mandatory] [single] [look-up key] descr: [mandatory] [multiple] [ ] country: [mandatory] [multiple] [ ] admin-c: [mandatory] [multiple] [inverse key] tech-c: [mandatory] [multiple] [inverse key] rev-srv: [optional] [multiple] [ ] status: [mandatory] [single] [ ] # mandatory !!! remarks: [optional] [multiple] [ ] notify: [optional] [multiple] [inverse key] mnt-by: [optional] [multiple] [inverse key] mnt-lower: [optional] [multiple] [ ] changed: [mandatory] [multiple] [ ] source: [mandatory] [single] [ ] If you have anymore questions, please contact <ripe-dbm(a)ripe.net>. Regards, Ambrose Magee ____________________________ RIPE Database Administration.

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Problems with whois and auto-dbm.
by RIPE Database Administration 08 Jul '98

08 Jul '98

Dear Colleagues, Yesterday morning, there were problems with the whois service and with auto-dbm. Unfortunately, the RIPE NCC was closed yesterday for the annual staff day. The staff were out of the office, in a rural location. Thus, when we became aware of the problems, our response time was longer than usual. A message explaining the situation was posted, but again unfortunatley, this message does not appear to have been delivered. We have fixed the problems and wish to thank those of you who took the time and the trouble to notify us. Murphy's Law worked overtime yesterday, but thankfully, once we knew that there was a problem, it did not prevent a dash to the RIPE NCC office using various types of transport. If you have any questions, please contact <ripe-dbm(a)ripe.net>. Regards, Ambrose Magee ________________________ RIPE NCC Database Group.

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Changes in the "changed" field
by Joao Luis Silva Damas 25 Jun '98

25 Jun '98

Dear all, There have been concerns lately about e-mail addresses in the "changed" fields being used to send unsolicited e-mail messages. Please review this discussions in the mailing archives. Archives for the RIPE mailing lists are available at http://www/info/maillists.html After deliberations in the db-wg mailing list, the RIPE NCC suggests the implementation of the following changes: - By default changed fields won't be shown in queries. - These fields can be retrieved using a query option (whois -c). - These fields will not be compared against incoming data when deleting the object. The RIPE NCC would appreciate comments on the mentioned changes before implementation begins. The comment period will be a week since the posting of this message. Please direct your comments directly to the RIPE NCC using the ripe-dbm(a)ripe.net mailbox. The changes will be implemented in the next release of the RIPE DB code, due July 15th, 1998. Best regards, Joao Damas RIPE DB group RIPE NCC

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(no subject)
by Sam J. H. Hamilton 22 Jun '98

22 Jun '98

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Re: how to proceed with changed:
by Wilfried Woeber, UniVie/ACOnet 10 Jun '98

10 Jun '98

Folks, ( for a moment wearing my hat as RIPE-DB chair ) I'm asking all of you to try to have an educated discussion of DB problems, proposals for changes and proposed solutions. Discussions about history, the relative merits(?) of spam and/or legal aspects is - I think - outside the scope of this mailing list. Please move to the appropriate fora to tackle these issues. Thank you very much for listening. Regards, Wilfried Woeber -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wilfried Woeber : e-mail: Woeber(a)CC.UniVie.ac.at Computer Center - ACOnet : Tel: +43 1 4277 - 140 33 Vienna University : Fax: +43 1 4277 - 9 140 Universitaetsstrasse 7 : RIPE-DB (&NIC) Handle: WW144 A-1010 Vienna, Austria, Europe : PGP public key ID 0xF0ACB369 --------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: how to proceed with changed:
by kissg＠sztaki.hu 10 Jun '98

10 Jun '98

James Adridge wrote: > If people change jobs then it should be possible to perform an inverse query > on the changed field in the same way as the admin-c, tech-c, etc. to permit > updating of all affected records. I think active ripe-ops are also unhappy if spammed newbies send them tons of complaining mails. Remember this philosophy: | For legal reasons, anyone and everyone that is related to an IP Address | or related higher domains or IP routes are included in the anti-spam | message, that way noone can say later, they didn't know or weren't | notified about the law. These peoples doesn't know and doesn't want to know what is the difference between changed and admin-c fields. They just see Yet Another E-mail Address To Born. Which of you wants to be "anyone and everyone"? I definitely not. A new idea: Every "changed" field should contain <president(a)whitehouse.gov>. So the Secret Service or the FBI will explain politely all of these newbies, that Lenin was right when he said: "To learn, to learn, to learn" (before writing) :-) Regards Gabor

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how to proceed with changed:
by Daniel Karrenberg 09 Jun '98

09 Jun '98

Let my try to summarise the discussion: 1) changed has a fuzzy definition, a more concise audit trail attribute should replace it. A concrete proposal is needed. David has already thought about this. Want to write it up. Do *not* call it changed:! 2) I porposed to exclude changed: from answers to normal queries. Present the changed attribute only when the query contains a special flag (like -c). The only serious problem with the proposal I have read so far is the comparison for deleting an object. This could be changed to exclude changed: attributes. Anything I am missing? Daniel

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Re: "changed" field should be deleted
by Havard.Eidnes＠runit.sintef.no 09 Jun '98

09 Jun '98

> There is a general problem with publicly available email contact > information. I would prefer to solve the general problem. I'd say that if you are out to generalize, there is a general problem of SPAM. Why not solve that instead? 1/2 :-) Seriously, I think that effectively removing contact information from the database is much too similar to sawing off your foot at the knee because you have an itch in one of your toes. I mean, how long will it take before all and everyone needing (out of policy) or wanting to have their contact information publically available to install an auto-filter which will toss messages with "unknown" digital signatures ("of *any* kind"?)??? I think it'll be easier and quicker to deal with the SPAM problem itself before we get there. Besides, the contact information also currently serves as a means for anyone to get in touch with the domain holder or the technical administrator of the domain, in conjunction with e.g. security- related events (yes, I know, it's maybe not fully reliable, but what else is there?), and those messages, even if they were digitally signed, would probably come from an "unknown" key-holder. In all, I have serious misgivings about this general idea of removing contact information from the database. - Håvard

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"changed" field should be deleted
by kissg＠sztaki.hu 09 Jun '98

09 Jun '98

Dear folks, Nowadays I can see a new style of anti-spam fight. If the victim gets some junk mail, (s)he retrieves all database objects (including *rt) relative to ALL hosts, domains, and IP addresses that can be found in the mail header, and s(he) send complaining mails to ALL the fifty e-mail addresses found in the database objects (including the *ch field). :-( So these uneducated lamers multiply the amount of spam and harras a dozen of peoples who are not responsible for the original junk mail and the spam relays. The lamers cannot diffrentiate the "responsible persons" and those who maintain the database records itselves. My first radical suggestion is: Let's delete the *ch field from the database objects. However I know that there should be some info about the history of records. a few raw ideas: - modified database software that hides the *ch field. *ch's could be retrieved with some extra efforts only - some coded ID instead of e-mail address. Ordinary peoples couldn't decode it but authorized ripe-ops could. (E.g. via WWW or e-mail) This info shouldn't be public. What is your opinion? (Personally I've changed my jobs years ago but my e-mail address can be found in hundreds of *ch fields. So I hate the anti-spam spam as well than the spam itself.) Regards Gabor

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Re: "changed" field should be deleted
by kissg＠sztaki.hu 08 Jun '98

08 Jun '98

> > "Other users" are not really interested in the real e-mail address > > of changer. This field is needed only by administrators who want to > > delete the object because they have to send back the exact copy of > > the record. > > "Other users" are at least interested in the latest modification date > and the address of someone to report problems to. When I find wrong > information (mostly bouncing email addresses) in an entry I usually > send a note to the address in the last "changed" line. This means you are not "other user". :-) Anybody who knows what the what is the changed field for is a guru. Gurus can put an extra switch in the whois query to retrieve the real list of changers. regards Gabor

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Re: "changed" field should be deleted
by Gerald Andrew Winters 06 Jun '98

06 Jun '98

from Michael van Elst <mlelstv(a)xlink.net> Hi, > > This would obviously help the registries but other users of the RIPE-DB > > might be left out by this solution. > > "Other users" are not really interested in the real e-mail address > of changer. This field is needed only by administrators who want to > delete the object because they have to send back the exact copy of > the record. well, that's a kind of broad statement comparable to the "no user would need more than 640k". Won't you think ? For me the changed records help to track down the person who modified the record and who could possibly tell what was changed and why it was changed. Of course you cannot trust the records, but it gives strong hints. from gerald(a)merit.edu In my mind it is tough to make the argument to keep email addresses in the changed field because it helps you know the person to make the last change. You can specify the "mnt-nfy:" attribute in the maintainer or "notify:" attribute in the object to have an email message sent which give the email header of the person who made the udpate. You always have a problem in situations like this when you want to make a change to the database registry to something that has been around a long time. There are always going to be users who don't want to change things for whatever reason. eg, I still have people tell me they use the old ANS "advisory:" field which I think has been obsoleted for quite some time now. So even a proposal to get rid of the "advisory:" field would meet with some resistence. My $0.02, the "changed:" field as it is is worse than useless. The information that goes in it right now belongs either in a "descr:" field if someone chooses or not in the db at all. And there is a legitimate privacy issue which needs to be addressed. I am in favor of keeping the "changed:" field. I feel it should contain the UTC machine generated time stamp of the last update and that's it. We would know the last update and I also feel we (someday) need a mechanism for dealing with legacy objects, ie, objects that have been abandoned. A *real* time stamp along with real routing announcement information would go a long way into dealing with this problem. --jerry

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Re: "changed" field should be deleted
by kissg＠sztaki.hu 06 Jun '98

06 Jun '98

> > Then the whole db software could be modified in such a way that > > it reponses just a fake line (changed: you-are(a)not.interested.in-it 990101) > > unless the query contains a "-C almost_secret_password_here" option. > > The so called "password" might be retrieved by e-mail > > from the RIPE NCC. > > This would obviously help the registries but other users of the RIPE-DB > might be left out by this solution. "Other users" are not really interested in the real e-mail address of changer. This field is needed only by administrators who want to delete the object because they have to send back the exact copy of the record. Regards Gabor

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Re: "changed" field should be deleted
by kissg＠sztaki.hu 05 Jun '98

05 Jun '98

> > I agree that this needs attention. > > The whole changed: functionality should be reviewed. > > > > I agree that a short term measure could be to suppress changed > > information unless explicitly requested. This would also allow > > us to check the whois query logs for those requesting it ...;-). > > Does anyone know if this would break any knows scripts or uses > > of the database? > > > > Daniel > > Hiding the changed: lines definitely breaks every system that keeps > _copies_ of the entries because it is impossible to update entries > from these copies without trashing the existing entries. I guess the most of these uneducated users use the www interface of the RIPE-DB and not a client program. So in the first step it should be filtered out "changed" fields on the web. This probably doesn't effect the system you wrote about. Then the whole db software could be modified in such a way that it reponses just a fake line (changed: you-are(a)not.interested.in-it 990101) unless the query contains a "-C almost_secret_password_here" option. The so called "password" might be retrieved by e-mail from the RIPE NCC. > And if you make the changed: line availables optionally then those > who want to use addresses will quickly figure out how to get them. This is true. But if someone knows that the "changed" field is missing he knows too what is it for. The newbies who write these harrasing mails know nothing about RIPE database so they won't miss this info. They will happy without it too. ;-) This is like medicines. Its are hazardous in hand of a child so we must keep the drugs locked away. However adults can open the locker in the bathroom easy if the need some pills. Regards Gabor

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RE: "changed" field should be deleted
by Christian Panigl, ACOnet/UniVie 05 Jun '98

05 Jun '98

>Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 11:12:32 +0200 >From: kissg(a)sztaki.hu > >What is your opinion? Hi Gabor, by chance I know someone who already had similar thoughts, guess who ;-) >(Personally I've changed my jobs years ago but my e-mail address >can be found in hundreds of *ch fields. So I hate the >anti-spam spam as well than the spam itself.) How about changing our mail address, let's say every two weeks ?-( I'd vote for your first suggestion: >- modified database software that hides the *ch field. *ch's could > be retrieved with some extra efforts only Probably this could/should be combined with introducing "real" changed records (added by the database software using mail-header of update). Cheers Christian --- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- --- --- Christian Panigl : Vienna University Computer Center - ACOnet --- --- VUCC - ACOnet - VIX : -------------------------------------------- --- --- Universitaetsstrasse 7 : Mail: Panigl(a)CC.UniVie.ac.at (CP8-RIPE) --- --- A-1010 Vienna / Austria : Tel: +43 1 4277-14032 (Fax: -9140) --- --- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---

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Beta Version of the State of the Database Reports.
by RIPE Database Administration 05 Jun '98

05 Jun '98

Dear Colleagues, At the Database Working Group session at RIPE 31 in Stockholm recently, it was announced that the beta version of the State of the Database Reports would be published. The URL is: <http://www.ripe.net/db/state/index.html> Comments and questions to <ripe-dbm(a)ripe.net>. Regards, Ambrose Magee ____________________________ RIPE Database Administration.

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down time on rpslii.ripe.net
by Joao Luis Silva Damas 28 May '98

28 May '98

Dear all, Tomorrow at 13:15 the phase II rpsl server at the RIPE NCC (rpslii.ripe.net) will be down for an estimated time of 1h 30m for physical relocation of the machine to a different location. Regards, Joao

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(no subject)
by Gerald Winters 22 May '98

22 May '98

Hello All, Does someone from Ripe know the story on the "withdrawn" attribute for route objects? The value in the v2 ripe shows date plus email address whereas v1 had date only. 1. What is the rationale for the change? Thanks, --jerry ------- Forwarded Message Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 10:02:57 +0930 From: Mark Prior <mrp(a)connect.com.au> To: cengiz(a)isi.edu cc: Gerald Winters <gerald(a)merit.edu>, rps(a)isi.edu, merit-ie(a)merit.edu, cengiz(a)cat.isi.edu Subject: Re: RPSL phase ii software announcement Mark Prior on Tue, 19 May 1998 08:57:31 +0930 said: > Onto something completely different, I notice that the withdrawn > attribute under RIPE DB v1 was only a date, then RIPE DB v2 made it a > date and email address and finally RPSL has changed it back to just a > date again. What's the rationale for the changes? I'm just curious as > I have to deal with all three formats now :-( [snip...] It would be interesting to know why RIPE changed it from someone at RIPE who knows, assuming someone does :-) Mark. ------- End of Forwarded Message

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Re:
by Gerald Andrew Winters 19 May '98

19 May '98

Hello Daniel, So the person who withdrew the route can be different from the person who submitted the change? I assume that is the reason for adding an email address to withdrawn. But is this a likely scenerio, that of the submitter of the change being different from the withdrawer? --jerry > Gerald Winters <gerald(a)merit.edu> writes: > Hello All, > > Does someone from Ripe know the story on the "withdrawn" > attribute for route objects? The value in the v2 ripe > shows date plus email address whereas v1 had date only. > > 1. What is the rationale for the change? To be able to document who withdrew the route. > > Thanks, And what was 2? Daniel

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