- db-wg - mailman.ripe.net

Whois Release 1.96
by Edward Shryane 04 Dec '19

04 Dec '19

Dear Working Group, RIPE Database release 1.96 has been deployed to the Release Candidate environment. We plan to deploy to production on Wednesday 4th December. This release contains the following main changes since 1.95.1: * Added "country:" attribute to organisation object type * Deprecated "mnt-lower:" attribute in autnum object type * Abuse-c validation comment must refer to the LIR organisation * Limit number of results in full-text search queries * Apply query limit to version queries For a full list of changes, refer to the release notes: https://www.ripe.net/manage-ips-and-asns/db/release-notes/ripe-database-rel… More information on the Release Candidate environment can be found on our website: https://www.ripe.net/manage-ips-and-asns/db/release-notes/rc-release-candid… Please let us know if you find any issues with this release in the RC environment. Regards Ed Shryane RIPE NCC

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Removing the "mnt-lower" attribute from aut-num objects
by Edward Shryane 03 Dec '19

03 Dec '19

Dear Colleagues, as presented during the DB-WG session at RIPE 79, we plan to remove the "mnt-lower" attribute from the aut-num object type. From the RIPE database documentation [0]: “mnt-lower: This attribute has no meaning in the aut-num object. In the RIPE NCC service region, we do not allocate blocks of AS numbers for users to assign from. All AS numbers are assigned by the RIPE NCC therefore there is no hierarchy to ‘maintain’ or authorise against. This attribute should be deprecated.”  We plan to implement this change in the next Whois release (we will announce this separately). We do not expect any operational impact. It is currently an optional attribute. This attribute will be removed (with a warning) from any aut-num updates. At the same time, we plan to remove this attribute from approximately 948 of 35,144 aut-num objects. We will announce separately to the db-wg and affected maintainers, before and after removal. Please let me know of any feedback or questions you may have. Regards Ed Shryane RIPE NCC [0] https://www.ripe.net/manage-ips-and-asns/db/support/documentation/ripe-data…

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Removing the Legacy Status "remarks" attribute
by Edward Shryane 03 Dec '19

03 Dec '19

Dear Colleagues, As presented during the DB-WG session at RIPE 79, we plan to remove the legacy status "remarks" attribute from inetnum and aut-num objects in the RIPE database. This remark was added to LEGACY resources in 2015, when implementing the policy 2012-07 "RIPE NCC Services to Legacy Internet Resource Holders” [0]. The remark states: "For information on "status:" attribute read https://www.ripe.net/data-tools/db/faq/faq-status-values-legacy-resources” We now consider this remark to be obsolete, and have already performed a similar cleanup on (most) aut-num objects in August 2017. We plan to shortly remove this remark from approximately 19,059 inetnum and 15 aut-num objects, and will email affected maintainers before and after the change. Please let me know of any feedback or questions you may have. Regards Ed Shryane RIPE NCC [0] https://www.ripe.net/participate/policies/proposals/2012-07

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Internationalized domain names in the data abase?
by Ronald F. Guilmette 08 Nov '19

08 Nov '19

Sorry if I am interrupting any ongoing discussion, but I just have a quick and simple question... Is it permitted to have internationalized domain names appear within the database? By that I really mean to ask if it is permissible to have there appear in the data base IDNs which are written in their UTF-8 encoded forms, rather than, say, in punycode? I have found at least one specific case where an IDN does appear in the data base as a UTF-8 encoded string, but since I had never seen that before, I just wanted to know if that was an anomalous mistake or if it was consider normal, acceptable, and routine.

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Re: [db-wg] NWI-10 Definition of Country
by Arash Naderpour 08 Nov '19

08 Nov '19

Hi Denis, What you name it as "meaningless values" are not meaningless to the organizations that they are using it. When you request a new allocation from NCC you will be asked to *"specify the country which the allocation will be announced"*, and based on your selection the country code will be set for both the inet(6)numns and allocation entry in the delegation file. This is the way that the country code is added in first place in delegation file. A member may decides to use the allocation later in a different country, and they can update the country code for inet(6)numns in ripe db, so I think the best practice is to sync the delegation file with the database and let the members decide what value should be set. Regards, Arash Naderpour On Fri, Nov 1, 2019 at 11:50 PM denis walker <dw100uk(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > Hi Arash > > If many organisations are using these values then, unfortunately, you are > basing decisions on meaningless values. > > The country attribute in resource objects is undefined. Users can set this > to any country they wish with no meaning to anyone reading the value from > the database. > > From the description of the extended delegated stats file > ftp://ftp.ripe.net/ripe/stats/RIR-Statistics-Exchange-Format.txt > > it says this about the country code: > > Format: > > registry|cc|type|start|value|date|status[|extensions...] > > registry = One value from the set of defined strings: > > {apnic,arin,iana,lacnic,ripencc}; > > cc = ISO 3166 2-letter country code, and the enumerated > variances of > > {AP,EU,UK} > > These values are not defined in ISO 3166 but are widely used. > > The cc value identifies the country. However, it is not specified > if this is the country where the addresses are used. > There are no rules defined for this value. > It therefore cannot be used in any reliable way to map IP addresses > to countries > > If you were to sync the stats file with resource object data you are in > effect setting an undefined field in the stats to an undefined value from > the database. > > The purpose of NWI-10 is to create a well defined country value in both > the stats file and the ORGANISATION object. The legal location of an > organisation is currently the only well defined country information > available. There is no information available anywhere in the database or > stats file telling you where a network is being used. > > cheers > denis > > co-chair DB-WG > > On Friday, 1 November 2019, 05:37:28 CET, Arash Naderpour via db-wg < > db-wg(a)ripe.net> wrote: > > > Hi, > > I'm new to DB-WG, but want to express my opinion in this regard, > from problem definition: > "Historically the country code was used to refer to the location of the > network" > > There are plenty of organization out there that are already set their > network and firewalls rules to use country code value in delegation file as > reference to the location of the network. > > Changing the rule to to something new, will cause problem for clients and > providers, so I don't think it is a good idea, > country code in delegation file can be synced with the country code for > resource object in RIPE DB. > A new attribute in organization object refers to where the resource holder > is legally based is totally fine, but having the same value in delegation > file can break networks and services. > > Regards, > > Arash Naderpour > Parsun Network Solutions >

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Re: [db-wg] [Ext] Re: NWI-10 Definition of Country
by Leo Vegoda 01 Nov '19

01 Nov '19

Sanjaya wrote: > Just a thought, maybe we could redefine the RIR extended delegated > file format to incorporate both cc values of inet(6)num|autnum and > organisation Whois objects like this: > > registry|xx|type|start|value|date|status|yy-custodianid > Where: > xx = country code of inet(6)num|autnum > yy = country code of organisation > > This will require agreement among the RIRs and some adjustments > by the relying parties, but provides a clearer mapping between > Whois objects and the stats file records. My 2 cents. The stats file could have its structure adjusted but remember that "country:" is a multiple attribute, so there could technically be as many countries listed as there are valid ISO 3166 codes. Also, aligning the stats file and inet(6)numns doesn't solve the fundamental issue, which is that the "country:" attribute in inet(6)nums has never had a clearly defined meaning. Readers and writers of the data almost certainly mean and understand different things. As there is already a lack of shared understanding and a very large deployed base, which includes lots of legacy software, managing a change that leaves the structure intact while potentially changing how that data should be used sounds dangerous to me. That's the sort of change that leads to subtle, quiet errors that are hard to debug. I think it is safer to break things in a way that is very obvious, so that they get noticed and fixed. Kind regards, Leo Vegoda

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Re: [db-wg] NWI-10 Definition of Country
by ripedenis＠yahoo.co.uk 01 Nov '19

01 Nov '19

Hi Arash If many organisations are using these values then, unfortunately, you are basing decisions on meaningless values. The country attribute in resource objects is undefined. Users can set this to any country they wish with no meaning to anyone reading the value from the database. >From the description of the extended delegated stats fileftp://ftp.ripe.net/ripe/stats/RIR-Statistics-Exchange-Format.txt it says this about the country code:Format: registry|cc|type|start|value|date|status[|extensions...] registry = One value from the set of defined strings: {apnic,arin,iana,lacnic,ripencc}; cc = ISO 3166 2-letter country code, and the enumerated variances of {AP,EU,UK} These values are not defined in ISO 3166 but are widely used. The cc value identifies the country. However, it is not specified if this is the country where the addresses are used. There are no rules defined for this value. It therefore cannot be used in any reliable way to map IP addresses to countriesIf you were to sync the stats file with resource object data you are in effect setting an undefined field in the stats to an undefined value from the database. The purpose of NWI-10 is to create a well defined country value in both the stats file and the ORGANISATION object. The legal location of an organisation is currently the only well defined country information available. There is no information available anywhere in the database or stats file telling you where a network is being used. cheersdenis co-chair DB-WG On Friday, 1 November 2019, 05:37:28 CET, Arash Naderpour via db-wg <db-wg(a)ripe.net> wrote: Hi, I'm new to DB-WG, but want to express my opinion in this regard, from problem definition:"Historically the country code was used to refer to the location of the network" There are plenty of organization out there that are already set their network and firewalls rules to use country code value in delegation file as reference to the location of the network. Changing the rule to to something new, will cause problem for clients and providers, so I don't think it is a good idea, country code in delegation file can be synced with the country code for resource object in RIPE DB.A new attribute in organization object refers to where the resource holder is legally based is totally fine, but having the same value in delegation file can break networks and services. Regards, Arash NaderpourParsun Network Solutions

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Re: [db-wg] NWI-10 Definition of Country
by Arash Naderpour 01 Nov '19

01 Nov '19

Hi, I'm new to DB-WG, but want to express my opinion in this regard, from problem definition: "Historically the country code was used to refer to the location of the network" There are plenty of organization out there that are already set their network and firewalls rules to use country code value in delegation file as reference to the location of the network. Changing the rule to to something new, will cause problem for clients and providers, so I don't think it is a good idea, country code in delegation file can be synced with the country code for resource object in RIPE DB. A new attribute in organization object refers to where the resource holder is legally based is totally fine, but having the same value in delegation file can break networks and services. Regards, Arash Naderpour Parsun Network Solutions

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country attribute in aut-num
by Cynthia Revström 23 Oct '19

23 Oct '19

Hello, I ran into an issue today that was the inability to have a country attribute in the aut-num object, despite having a country code in the delegated file. I would like to see it added to WHOIS. - Cynthia

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Apologies for the accidental email
by Fallon Albrecht 23 Oct '19

23 Oct '19

Dear working group, I apologise for the accidental email that was sent out, it was meant to be an internal feature request. Sorry for spamming you. Fallon

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