{thread changed to add a maybe late comment}<div>Dear RIPE DB-WG,<div>Hope this email finds you in good health!</div><div><br></div><div>Please see my comments below, inline...</div><div>Thanks.<br><br>Le vendredi 9 juin 2023, denis walker via db-wg &lt;<a href="mailto:db-wg@ripe.net" target="_blank">db-wg@ripe.net</a>&gt; a écrit :<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto">Hi Randy<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">That would be fine if we had a very active and engaging community. Like we had 20 years ago. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div></div></blockquote><div> </div><div>Hi Denis,</div><div>Thanks for your email, brother!</div><div><br></div><div>No excuse! to try to bypass the reminded principle.</div><div>...imho!</div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">But the vast vast vast majority of this community is silent on almost all database matters. The vocal people are a handful of well known members of the community, </div><div dir="auto"><br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>...i suspect that it&#39;s not only an era problem; my </div><div>guess is simply that it might be more a matter </div><div>of natural growth of the population/community.</div><div><br></div><div>If you check old and current stats of participation </div><div>ratio, i submit that it would be *almost* influenced </div><div>only by the population/community growth, with </div><div>relatively nearly the same numbers of real active </div><div>participants...<br></div><div><br></div><div>That argument of delegitimating those who are </div><div>voluntarily participating, is not convincing me...</div><div><br></div><div>How come that those who.are participating are </div><div>*blamed*? Where are, actually, the others?</div><div><br></div><div>What&#39;s the $threshold of non-representativity?</div><div>...i would agree with a *WG&#39;s goal* tasking the </div><div>DB-WG Co-chairs to find a way to have more participation than that $threshold.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">whose views on many matters are also quite well known. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Are we really able to handle more various opinions?</div><div>...i mean, you know, suppose half of the accounts</div><div> subscribed show up here with theirs contributions.</div><div><br></div><div> ...i agree that it might not be what you asked for; </div><div>then maybe you should work (or ask RIPE NCC) on</div><div> finding a way to address the $threshold issue, </div><div>when identified.</div><div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Sometimes someone raises a point and it gets little or no response. Like assigning an allocation. Often the chairs know from face to face discussions, people want this option. But there is no discussion. In situations like this I&#39;ve found that a chair needs to drive the discussion. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Maybe you could (non exclusively):</div><div><br></div><div>option#1: start with regular reports or blog articles</div><div> to inform the whole community of those issues </div><div>raised privately</div><div>option#2: advise those, who choose to discuss </div><div>public matters privately, to post it on list; in order</div><div> to expect the support of part of the WG.</div><div>option#3: collect allowed private comments to the</div><div>  Staff; for inclusion consideration into their next </div><div>PIER [*].</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Even if that means making an outrageous suggestion that no one will agree to, but it generates a reaction. From the following discussion we can move forward. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Also sometimes a chair needs to throw ideas out into the community to move the service forwards. The chairs talk with the NCC engineers. We often discuss ideas that no one in the community is thinking about. If the chairs don&#39;t then raise it with the community the idea can never be considered. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div></div></blockquote><div> </div><div>Not sure! imho! the Staff should have a way [1] to </div><div>share their experience and recommendations </div><div>regarding their implementation of the Policy </div><div>Manual. They should share these information on that channel...and if it no longer exists; please ask </div><div>for a reboot.</div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">So either the chairs or the NCC engineers need to be able to put ideas into the public domain, and sometimes drive the discussion to get it started, or technically and socially the database as a product and service just stagnates.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div></div></blockquote><div> </div><div>__</div><div>[*]: PIER (Policy Implementation Experience Report)</div><div><b>Purpose of Policy Experience Report</b><br></div><div>&lt;<a href="https://www.arin.net/participate/meetings/reports/ARIN_34/PDF/thursday/nobile-experience.pdf">https://www.arin.net/participate/meetings/reports/ARIN_34/PDF/thursday/nobile-experience.pdf</a>&gt;</div><div>&lt;quote_page2&gt;<br><b>Purpose of Policy Experience <br>Report</b><br><br><i>• Review existing policies 
<br>– Ambiguous text/Inconsistencies/Gaps/Effectiveness 
<br>• Identify areas where new or modified policy 
<br>may be needed 
<br>– Operational experience 
<br>– Customer feedback 
<br>• Provide feedback to community and make 
<br>recommendations when appropriate </i><br>&lt;/quote_page2&gt;<br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I often take on this role, as well as the devil&#39;s advocate to question what others say. I don&#39;t see it as pushing a personal agenda. I have no personal agenda. It doesn&#39;t matter to me personally if the database evolves or dies. It does matter to the industry and society. I have no employer or financial interest in how the database evolves. I can look at each issue and consider how it fits in with that old saying...for the good of the Internet. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">This is one of the reasons why I&#39;ve put myself forward again as a chair for another couple of years. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Thanks for your much appreciated engagement, </div><div>imho! and congrates for your selection as Co-chair.</div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I hope in that time David can spearhead a new generation of WG chairs. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Congratulations and welcome, Co-chair David!</div><div><br></div><div>Maybe, raising awareness of the need to participate</div><div> within your generation-peers, should be considered</div><div> too...dear David :-)</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Then dinosaurs like myself (and others) can ascend into advisory positions instead of decision making roles. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Thanks for continuing to support the community </div><div>and the DB-WG, in particular.</div><div><br></div><div>Shalom,</div><div>--sb.</div><div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Cheers</div><div dir="auto">Denis</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote" dir="auto"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, 9 Jun 2023, 15:37 Randy Bush via db-wg, &lt;<a href="mailto:db-wg@ripe.net" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">db-wg@ripe.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">&gt; Some of my goals as a co-chair would be<br>
&gt; - To support the moderation of the mailing list and facilitate working<br>
&gt;   group tasks<br>
&gt; - Promote active discussion, sending summary emails to make the<br>
&gt;   content easier to follow<br>
&gt; - Perform community outreach to raise awareness of this working group<br>
&gt;   and the policy process<br>
<br>
/me likes.  simple, but what a chair should be doing.  leave personal<br>
agendas at the door.<br>
<br>
randy<br>
<br>[...]</blockquote></div>
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</blockquote></div></div>
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