Dear all, I just recently submitted the draft minutes for the DB-WG meeting (jointly produced by Daniel am me) to Anne. Any comments welcome! Wilfried. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Report from the Database-WG Meeting at the 16th RIPE Meeting, Amsterdam ----------------------------------------------------------------------- 0. Additions to/modifications of the agenda The proposed agenda was accepted. 1. The new Database Software Marten Terpstra provided a detailed report on the current state of the DB-Software, both from a software point of view as well as from the deployment point of view. The slides for this presentation can be found in the presentations directory in the RIPE document store: ftp.ripe.net:ripe/presentations The new software is in production use since Friday September 10th and until now there have not been any major problems. During the discussion it was again stressed, that the current implementation is built to do syntax checks according to the object description and not according to common usage practice. The RIPE NCC welcomes suggestions as to where the syntax checking needs to be changed. Currently objects with illegal schema are deleted from the database. One of the things discussed was how to avoid a possibly large number of bounced submissions. One way of doing this is to obtain (part of) the new software to do the checking locally. The beta-version of the software is available, although it probably makes more sense to wait for the official software distribution which will provide a dedicated syntax-checker. A syntax checker daemon at the NCC was also suggested to remove the requirement to run the software locally. A template generator was suggested as well. This needs more discussion on the mailing list. The NCC has run a syntax check on the whole database and was asked to make the syntax error output available. Daniel Karrenberg gave an overview on the "Authorization and Notification of Changes in the RIPE-DB" proposal. It was decided to implement it as proposed. Proposals on how to better support the distribution of the update process are very welcome. The discussion of implementing "guarded attributes" revealed concern about the possibility to delete an object that has a guarded attribute. It was agreed that the implementation will not delete any object as long as guarded fields are present. This will force removal of guarded fields from the object before the delete operation is accepted. The database is NOT keeping track of "pending deletes", thus the delete request has to be submitted again after removal of the guarded attribute(s). The NCC will look into ways to notify guardians of failed deletes. The originator of the delete request will of course be notified. The procedure to convert existing information into guarded information (eg. aut-sys: for the network object) was agreed as follows: - the NCC moves the information from the database to the guardian files - initially the NCC is the guardian - as soon as possible, responsibility for the files is transferred to the real guardian(s) 2. Database (and Software) Documentation The documentation will be structured to consist of - Object Definitions and general background information, by WW and NCC and available before the end of 1993 - Software Documentation, provided by the NCC asap - Maintainer's Guide (for eg. the Local-IRs) additional input and support is expected from the Local-IRs and others - Secondary Server Guide additional input and support is expected from the Local-IRs and others The Objects Definition and the SW-Documentation get priority, in the listed order. 3. Unique Person Handles Given the growth of the database, it is urgent to distinguish person objects for people with the same name! After another round of thorough discussion it was decided that RIPE suggests a global scheme to the InterNIC. One of the possible solutions is to reserve a sub-range of the NIC handle space for RIPE allocation, eg. XY3000-XY5000. If this approach fails, then WW and the NCC will propose a unique identifier scheme for RIPE (aka "RIPE Handle"). 4. Objects Review and Proposals The proposed CLNS routing object (dom-prefix:) was presented by Henk Steenman and accepted. Some minor loose ends how to check for syntax and maybe semantics of the hexadecimal strings that are the CLNS address-prefixes have to be ironed out (Henk Steenman and Tony Bates). The long-standing proposal to build a "Resource Object" was formally withdrawn. Then the discussion moved on to agree on how to make a smooth transition from ripe-60 to the ripe-81 format to describe the routing. The steps are as follows: - as soon as the guarded fields are implemented, ripe-60 entries will no longer be accepted. - ripe-60 information is converted to ripe-81 format. - when there are no longer any operational dependencies then all ripe-60 data will be removed from the database. Jean-Michel Jouanigot is the focal point for the ripe-60 --> ripe-81 transition coordination. Also the gateway: field for the network objects was confirmed to be obsolete and can be removed from the databse. 5. DB Exchange format(s) and procedures The circulated document about the agreed interchange format was briefly reviewed. Everything seems to be in place to actually start exchanges with the InterNIC. There was consensus that this has a very high priority. Currently the recommendation is not to try to get the various databases in sync manually. 6. DB usage conventions and recommendations Quite some time was spent to discuss the connect: attribute of the network object. It was agreed that the only well-defined value is LOCAL. This attribute should eventually be obsoleted. Later it was noted that it is currently mandatory and should be made optional after one round of mailing-list discussion. However, there is a need for the functionality, maybe the community: approach is the right way to go (eg. create community NSF). Still there is concern that some of the approaches that are obvious for "old hands in networking" are not necessarily useful for the end-users. Maybe the tools coming out of the PRIDE project can help to solve this problem. NCC to start the discussion with a rough proposal before the next meeting. 7. whois++ by Peter Deutsch et.al. The whois++ project was briefly mentioned, although the DB group had too little information to actually discuss the issue. AOB It was mentioned that there is a need for new tools to support the Local-IRs. This needs more discussion on the e-mail list. Action-List: ------------ Action 16.?: NCC Put together a consolidated distribution of the new DB software, including a separate syntax checker for objects Action 16.?: Wilfried Woeber Start discussion on the DB mailing list on new tools needed, eg. template generator, syntax checker daemon at the NCC... Action 16.?: NCC Make the error reports form the DB syntax check publicly available Action 16.?: NCC Implement changes to DB procedures according to the proposal "Authorization and Notification of Changes in the RIPE-DB" by Daniel Karrenberg Action 16.?: NCC Implement changes to DB procedures for the guarded attributes according to the agreement Action 16.?: Wilfried Woeber and NCC Produce documentation about "Background, History and Object Definitions" for the new database software before the end of 1993 Action 16.?: NCC Produce "Software Documentation" for the new databse software asap Action 16.?: NCC To approach the InterNIC to agree on the use of a sub-range of the global NIC-Handle space for RIPE usage Action 16.?: Henk Steenman and NCC (Tony Bates) Implement the dom-prefix: object for CLNS routing, after tightening the syntax definition and semantics of the CLNS-address hexadecimal string Action 16.?: Jean-Michel Jouanigot To coordinate the transition from ripe-60 to ripe-81 format for routing description Action 16.?: NCC Try to actually get the synchronisation of the various databases going, using the recently agreed DB Exchange Format Action 16.?: NCC Start discussion on the mailing list by providing a first proposal how the functionality of the badly defined connect: attribute could be replaced (with the target group of the end-user in mind!) by using eg. community: and other forthcoming tools from the PRIDE project ----------------------------------------------------------------------