Hi Winfried, if OLD-ISP updates his objects as follows it also will work: route: 192.168.231.0/24 descr: Dummy New via old ISP origin: AS1234 mnt-by: OLD-ISP1-MNT mnt-routes: NEW-ISP-MNT source: RIPE # Filtere In this case there is no need for OLD-ISP to insert mnt-by, mnt-routes is sufficient. We often create objects like this. best regards Hermann Ihler _________________________________________ Deutsche Telekom T-Com Headquarters Network Information Center Ammerlaender Heerstrasse 138 DE 26129 Oldenburg +49 441 234 - 4582 (phone) +49 441 234 - 4589 (fax) E-Mail: Hermann.ihler@t-com.net -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Winfried Haug [mailto:wh@germany.com] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 5. April 2006 07:40 An: db-wg@ripe.net Betreff: [db-wg] Adding route objects Hello, we would like to ask the db-wg working group to change the behavior of adding route objects to the ripe database. I had a discussion with someone from ripe during the routing registry course and he told me that ripe could change the way how route objects can be created but this must be decided by the db-wg. We need route-objects for proper routing via bgp4. As customers may change their upstream they need for a certain amount of time more than one route object. The creating of this new route object failes if the old isp does not respond. Let me give you the following example: inetnum: 192.168.230.0 - 192.168.231.255 netname: DUMMY-NET descr: Customer GmbH country: DE org: ORG-AAAAA-RIPE admin-c: AA1 tech-c: AA1 status: ASSIGNED PI mnt-by: RIPE-NCC-HM-PI-MNT mnt-by: CUSTOMER-MNT mnt-by: NEW-ISP-MNT mnt-lower: RIPE-NCC-HM-PI-MNT mnt-routes: OLD-ISP1-MNT mnt-routes: OLD-ISP2-MNT mnt-routes: NEW-ISP-MNT mnt-domains: OLD-ISP1-MNT mnt-domains: OLD-ISP2-MNT mnt-domains: NEW-ISP-MNT source: RIPE # Filtered route: 192.168.231.0/24 descr: Dummy New via old ISP origin: AS1234 mnt-by: OLD-ISP1-MNT source: RIPE # Filtered we want now add this object parallel to the existing one: route: 192.168.231.0/24 descr: Dummy New via old ISP origin: AS5678 mnt-by: NEW-ISP-MNT source: RIPE # Filtered but fail because: not authenticated by: OLD-ISP1-MNT Thus if OLD-ISP doesnt want for whatever reason help the customer it seems to be that he can block new route objects. This is stupid and can as i know only solved with the help of ripe ncc. It seems to work only if the old isp changed his route object: route: 192.168.231.0/24 descr: Dummy New via old ISP origin: AS1234 mnt-by: OLD-ISP1-MNT source: RIPE # Filtered to route: 192.168.231.0/24 descr: Dummy New via old ISP origin: AS1234 mnt-by: OLD-ISP1-MNT mnt-by: NEW-ISP-MNT source: RIPE # Filtered I think the owner of the network (inetnum object) should be able to create route objects for his IPs. This would solve the problem. Currently he cant do this because the AS does not have his Maintainer i doubt large ISPs want even for a short period customer maintainer in their AS. To avoid abuse, the db should prevent to alter or create route-objects if there is no maintainer in the inetnum object. If the db will accept new route objects created by those who are maintainer in the inetnum object, the customer can do this without help of the old isp or ripe ncc. Could we have some input and comments from the working group ? Winfried Haug --- Headlight Housing Factory | Rechenzentrum: Azenbergstrasse 35 | Neue Bruecke 8 D-70174 Stuttgart | D-70173 Stuttgart Fon: +49 711 2840 0 | e-mail: wh@headlight.de Fax: +49 711 2840 999 | http://www.headlight.de