Hi Malcolm, all, On 04/09/2017 12:20, Malcolm Hutty wrote:
On 04/09/2017 11:09, Vesna Manojlovic wrote:
Someone? : come up with the numbers of "tech industry gender ratio"
What is the claimed relevance of the figure for the tech industry?
It's one of the possible numbers that we can compare ourselves with, and consider when setting goals for ourselves. Below are some numbers I could find with a few hours of searching. I am still going to look into other "similar" communities: - IETF - ICANN - software-developers / FLOSS - hackers/hackerspaces community - Other RIRs
RIPE doesn't target the tech industry for participation, it targets network operations personnel in all industries.
I wonder if that is still true: with more topics such as Internet Governance, IP transfer markets, research and academic cooperation, legal aspects of data privacy, "collaboration between the private and public sectors on Internet matters", anti-abuse, measurements, Net Neutrality, public policy, human rights & the Internet, ethics... I'm seeing more and more topics that are not classical "network operations".
That's two dimensions of differentiation: (a) network operations personnel, not (e.g.) marketing types (b) all industries, not just born-on-the-Internet+telcos (which I imagine is what you mean by tech industry not, for example, biotech).
Indeed - but with the "Internet" becoming more and more part of the other industries, it's hard to make a distinction. I would add a 3rd dimension - leadership positions. (partially because it's the boss who decides who gets to go to the RIPE meeting; partially because of the power structures that shape the rest of the industry & community...)
Is it proposed to target the tech industry gender ratio because that is expected to have a particular balanced ratio, and so be an aspirational target?
On the contrary - the numbers that are reported for the "tech industry" are quite worrying, and are supposed to be used rather as a warning, and to make us able to compare with communities that have a similar problem - because we have similar demographics. I would see it as an achievement if we can say "RIPE community is doing more-less the same as tech-industry average" or "we are doing better then XYZ community, but still not as good as NNN community." For now, we need a baseline, and then compare our own numbers from 2016 with the numbers in the future, to see if all our efforts made any improvements. Of course, the numbers by themselves are not enough - the *inclusion* is even more difficult to measure. The final goal (of getting to "better" decisions, policies and procedures for RIPE community) will be the ultimate measure -- however, very difficult to quantify. Vesna ==== It's hard to get the good numbers, specially over time, over various geographies, and for the "technical positions" or "IT sector". Here are some: ~~~ Newest numbers from Deloitte, not IT-specific: https://dupress.deloitte.com/dup-us-en/focus/human-capital-trends/2017/diver... ~~~ About university education in OECD countries, per country, gender disparity/gap, for example for Holland: http://www.keepeek.com/Digital-Asset-Management/oecd/education/education-at-... Employment gap: 85% women with university education are employed (compared to 91% me with the same education level) STEM education gap: 25% graduates in engineering etc are women Earning gap : women are payed 73% of what man is payed. There is a lot of to explore in OECD numbers, can't find more time ;-) ~~~ https://www.cnet.com/news/women-in-tech-the-numbers-dont-add-up/ 2015: "30% is the average percentage of women working in the tech industry, based on diversity reports published by 11 of the world's largest tech companies last year. In comparison, women make up 59 percent of the US labor force and almost 51 percent of the US population, according to the US Census Bureau." ~~~ 2015, USA tech/Web/IT companies: https://www.theverge.com/2015/8/20/9179853/tech-diversity-scorecard-apple-go... "female employment with 37 to 24 percent" "women in leadership roles 23 to 13 percent" ~~~ Even older numbers, by Fortune (with infographics...) http://fortune.com/2014/08/29/how-tech-companies-compare-in-employee-diversi... Leadership: =========== 2017: Glass Ceiling Index: http://press.economist.com/stories/10640-the-economist-releases-2017-glass-c... ~~~ 2015, USA: "Fewer large companies are run by women than by men named John" https://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/03/upshot/fewer-women-run-big-companies-than... ~~~ Business advisors - Ernst & Young - about diversity in leadership: http://www.ey.com/gl/en/issues/business-environment/ey-women-in-industry 30% again, as a goal. (don't even have "Internet Industry" ;-) ~~~ "According to a report by the European Commission (2012), in the European Union, as of beginning 2012, women constituted only 13.7% of board seats. " http://www.cpahq.org/cpahq/cpadocs/Genderdiffe.pdf ~~~ I'm afraid this is just a bunch of numbers & links, and it would take a longer time to produce some more concrete answers to questions Malcolm poses - or, if someone can come up with other questions, maybe the answers would be easier to develop, too. Thanks, Vesna ps more links here: https://wiki.techinc.nl/index.php/Ladies_Night#Gender_gap_in_tech