Folks, Amanda, Denesh, Sasha and I have put this presentation together for the community plenary this afternoon. It is forthright, but we definitely feel that it needs to be so. We are going to make it clear that we're still accepting comments on v3.0, but also still looking at having this in place for RIPE 80 if at all possible. I know I and others present in Rotterdam have got some really good further feedback. And, of course, as with all things, whatever CoC we have is never set in stone, it's always changeable as situations change. Thanks for everyone's input on this so far! Brian Brian Nisbet Service Operations Manager HEAnet CLG, Ireland's National Education and Research Network 1st Floor, 5 George's Dock, IFSC, Dublin D01 X8N7, Ireland +35316609040 brian.nisbet@heanet.ie www.heanet.ie Registered in Ireland, No. 275301. CRA No. 20036270
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Thu, Oct 17, 2019 at 12:58:14PM +0000, Brian Nisbet wrote:
Folks,
Amanda, Denesh, Sasha and I have put this presentation together for the community plenary this afternoon. It is forthright, but we definitely feel that it needs to be so.
We are going to make it clear that we're still accepting comments on v3.0, but also still looking at having this in place for RIPE 80 if at all possible.
I know I and others present in Rotterdam have got some really good further feedback.
And, of course, as with all things, whatever CoC we have is never set in stone, it's always changeable as situations change.
Thanks for everyone's input on this so far!
Thank you all for doing this. Is there a live stream of the plenary anywhere? J -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFdqGdt42M0lILkmGIRAhizAJ0W9LdmDxnM7PeHk/WmqH9gY5/QNgCgi5Lc VDO4tG6y3UzYDDAtqU8OLoY= =vOcU -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Julia, Yes, indeed, you can tune in here at 16:00 CEST: https://ripe79.ripe.net/live/ Brian Nisbet Service Operations Manager HEAnet CLG, Ireland's National Education and Research Network 1st Floor, 5 George's Dock, IFSC, Dublin D01 X8N7, Ireland +35316609040 brian.nisbet@heanet.ie www.heanet.ie Registered in Ireland, No. 275301. CRA No. 20036270 ________________________________________ From: diversity <diversity-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of Julia Freeman <ripe-diversity@quixotic.eu> Sent: Thursday 17 October 2019 14:06 To: diversity@ripe.net Subject: Re: [diversity] Community Plenary Presentation -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Thu, Oct 17, 2019 at 12:58:14PM +0000, Brian Nisbet wrote:
Folks,
Amanda, Denesh, Sasha and I have put this presentation together for the community plenary this afternoon. It is forthright, but we definitely feel that it needs to be so.
We are going to make it clear that we're still accepting comments on v3.0, but also still looking at having this in place for RIPE 80 if at all possible.
I know I and others present in Rotterdam have got some really good further feedback.
And, of course, as with all things, whatever CoC we have is never set in stone, it's always changeable as situations change.
Thanks for everyone's input on this so far!
Thank you all for doing this. Is there a live stream of the plenary anywhere? J -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFdqGdt42M0lILkmGIRAhizAJ0W9LdmDxnM7PeHk/WmqH9gY5/QNgCgi5Lc VDO4tG6y3UzYDDAtqU8OLoY= =vOcU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ diversity mailing list diversity@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/diversity
https://ripe79.ripe.net/live/?pk_campaign=ripe79_banner&pk_kwd=Remote_Part --- Sent from a handheld device.
On 17. Oct 2019, at 15:06, Julia Freeman <ripe-diversity@quixotic.eu> wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
On Thu, Oct 17, 2019 at 12:58:14PM +0000, Brian Nisbet wrote: Folks,
Amanda, Denesh, Sasha and I have put this presentation together for the community plenary this afternoon. It is forthright, but we definitely feel that it needs to be so.
We are going to make it clear that we're still accepting comments on v3.0, but also still looking at having this in place for RIPE 80 if at all possible.
I know I and others present in Rotterdam have got some really good further feedback.
And, of course, as with all things, whatever CoC we have is never set in stone, it's always changeable as situations change.
Thanks for everyone's input on this so far!
Thank you all for doing this.
Is there a live stream of the plenary anywhere?
J -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux)
iD8DBQFdqGdt42M0lILkmGIRAhizAJ0W9LdmDxnM7PeHk/WmqH9gY5/QNgCgi5Lc VDO4tG6y3UzYDDAtqU8OLoY= =vOcU -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
_______________________________________________ diversity mailing list diversity@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/diversity
Hi, On slides 5 in the speaker notes (which I assume will be published?) it says: ""Trusted contacts will emotionally support you, but absolutely can not take any other action. Effectively, our CoC creates a false sense of security. So our community’s current status is: if you get severely harassed at the party, which is a thing that happens, we can say how sorry we are for you, and tomorrow and next year your assailant will be sitting next to you. There is a CoC, but there is no accountability or consequences.”" This is not true and as I pointed out earlier on this list the Trusted contacts (and the RIPE Chair) have taken action in the past. I agree that the responsibilities of the Trusted Contacts may not be well understood or documented, but stating it like in the text above is wrong. Mirjam On 17/10/2019 14:58, Brian Nisbet wrote:
Folks,
Amanda, Denesh, Sasha and I have put this presentation together for the community plenary this afternoon. It is forthright, but we definitely feel that it needs to be so.
We are going to make it clear that we're still accepting comments on v3.0, but also still looking at having this in place for RIPE 80 if at all possible.
I know I and others present in Rotterdam have got some really good further feedback.
And, of course, as with all things, whatever CoC we have is never set in stone, it's always changeable as situations change.
Thanks for everyone's input on this so far!
Brian
Brian Nisbet Service Operations Manager HEAnet CLG, Ireland's National Education and Research Network 1st Floor, 5 George's Dock, IFSC, Dublin D01 X8N7, Ireland +35316609040 brian.nisbet@heanet.ie www.heanet.ie Registered in Ireland, No. 275301. CRA No. 20036270
_______________________________________________ diversity mailing list diversity@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/diversity
Mirjam, Ok, so, then there is confusion, and, if you could help, what can they do? I can edit and re-upload. Brian Brian Nisbet, Service Operations Manager, HEAnet ________________________________ From: Mirjam Kuehne <mir@ripe.net> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2019 3:22:58 PM To: Brian Nisbet <brian.nisbet@heanet.ie>; diversity@ripe.net <diversity@ripe.net> Subject: Re: [diversity] Community Plenary Presentation Hi, On slides 5 in the speaker notes (which I assume will be published?) it says: ""Trusted contacts will emotionally support you, but absolutely can not take any other action. Effectively, our CoC creates a false sense of security. So our community’s current status is: if you get severely harassed at the party, which is a thing that happens, we can say how sorry we are for you, and tomorrow and next year your assailant will be sitting next to you. There is a CoC, but there is no accountability or consequences.”" This is not true and as I pointed out earlier on this list the Trusted contacts (and the RIPE Chair) have taken action in the past. I agree that the responsibilities of the Trusted Contacts may not be well understood or documented, but stating it like in the text above is wrong. Mirjam On 17/10/2019 14:58, Brian Nisbet wrote:
Folks,
Amanda, Denesh, Sasha and I have put this presentation together for the community plenary this afternoon. It is forthright, but we definitely feel that it needs to be so.
We are going to make it clear that we're still accepting comments on v3.0, but also still looking at having this in place for RIPE 80 if at all possible.
I know I and others present in Rotterdam have got some really good further feedback.
And, of course, as with all things, whatever CoC we have is never set in stone, it's always changeable as situations change.
Thanks for everyone's input on this so far!
Brian
Brian Nisbet Service Operations Manager HEAnet CLG, Ireland's National Education and Research Network 1st Floor, 5 George's Dock, IFSC, Dublin D01 X8N7, Ireland +35316609040 brian.nisbet@heanet.ie www.heanet.ie<http://www.heanet.ie> Registered in Ireland, No. 275301. CRA No. 20036270
_______________________________________________ diversity mailing list diversity@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/diversity
I am definitely confused, because the text as written in the notes is precisely how I heard it multiple times from at least one of the other trusted contacts. Sasha
On 17 Oct 2019, at 15:29, Brian Nisbet <brian.nisbet@heanet.ie> wrote:
Mirjam,
Ok, so, then there is confusion, and, if you could help, what can they do?
I can edit and re-upload.
Brian
Brian Nisbet, Service Operations Manager, HEAnet From: Mirjam Kuehne <mir@ripe.net> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2019 3:22:58 PM To: Brian Nisbet <brian.nisbet@heanet.ie>; diversity@ripe.net <diversity@ripe.net> Subject: Re: [diversity] Community Plenary Presentation
Hi,
On slides 5 in the speaker notes (which I assume will be published?) it says:
""Trusted contacts will emotionally support you, but absolutely can not take any other action. Effectively, our CoC creates a false sense of security. So our community’s current status is: if you get severely harassed at the party, which is a thing that happens, we can say how sorry we are for you, and tomorrow and next year your assailant will be sitting next to you. There is a CoC, but there is no accountability or consequences.”"
This is not true and as I pointed out earlier on this list the Trusted contacts (and the RIPE Chair) have taken action in the past. I agree that the responsibilities of the Trusted Contacts may not be well understood or documented, but stating it like in the text above is wrong.
Mirjam
On 17/10/2019 14:58, Brian Nisbet wrote:
Folks,
Amanda, Denesh, Sasha and I have put this presentation together for the community plenary this afternoon. It is forthright, but we definitely feel that it needs to be so.
We are going to make it clear that we're still accepting comments on v3.0, but also still looking at having this in place for RIPE 80 if at all possible.
I know I and others present in Rotterdam have got some really good further feedback.
And, of course, as with all things, whatever CoC we have is never set in stone, it's always changeable as situations change.
Thanks for everyone's input on this so far!
Brian
Brian Nisbet Service Operations Manager HEAnet CLG, Ireland's National Education and Research Network 1st Floor, 5 George's Dock, IFSC, Dublin D01 X8N7, Ireland +35316609040 brian.nisbet@heanet.ie www.heanet.ie Registered in Ireland, No. 275301. CRA No. 20036270
_______________________________________________ diversity mailing list diversity@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/diversity
_______________________________________________ diversity mailing list diversity@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/diversity
When the TF asked for clarity on the remit of the Trusted Contacts, we were informed on the list that: "Yes, I would argue that there are examples where the trusted contacts together with the RIPE chair have taken actions successfully. Maybe we weren't so good at reporting back to the community (which of course would help with the perception part)." and "As Trusted Contacts, our primary responsibility is confidentiality of the report to us. Our training was as a "vertrouwenspersoon," although fortunately for me that was the only part of the training that took place in Dutch. This makes the production of reports somewhat difficult as above all we do not want those who have reported an issue to us to feel they could be identified through that report -- or that in future they do not report an issue for fear of being identified (the simple act of writing down the report is even something to consider). We do report back to Hans Petter, and we are currently working on a report but with the figures quite abstracted as a result. If others that have been involved in similar work elsewhere have examples of the level of public report we could be producing, they would be welcome. So far, my suggestion is that it is no more detailed than something along the lines of the following categories: - "In-meeting behaviour"; - "Behaviour at social events"; - "Mailing list behaviour" The number of reports we do receive is, as that report will show, quite low. " On 17/10/2019 15:33, Sasha Romijn wrote:
I am definitely confused, because the text as written in the notes is precisely how I heard it multiple times from at least one of the other trusted contacts.
Sasha
On 17 Oct 2019, at 15:29, Brian Nisbet <brian.nisbet@heanet.ie <mailto:brian.nisbet@heanet.ie>> wrote:
Mirjam,
Ok, so, then there is confusion, and, if you could help, what can they do?
I can edit and re-upload.
Brian
Brian Nisbet, Service Operations Manager, HEAnet ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *From:* Mirjam Kuehne <mir@ripe.net <mailto:mir@ripe.net>> *Sent:* Thursday, October 17, 2019 3:22:58 PM *To:* Brian Nisbet <brian.nisbet@heanet.ie <mailto:brian.nisbet@heanet.ie>>; diversity@ripe.net <mailto:diversity@ripe.net> <diversity@ripe.net <mailto:diversity@ripe.net>> *Subject:* Re: [diversity] Community Plenary Presentation
Hi,
On slides 5 in the speaker notes (which I assume will be published?) it says:
""Trusted contacts will emotionally support you, but absolutely can not take any other action. Effectively, our CoC creates a false sense of security. So our community’s current status is: if you get severely harassed at the party, which is a thing that happens, we can say how sorry we are for you, and tomorrow and next year your assailant will be sitting next to you. There is a CoC, but there is no accountability or consequences.”"
This is not true and as I pointed out earlier on this list the Trusted contacts (and the RIPE Chair) have taken action in the past. I agree that the responsibilities of the Trusted Contacts may not be well understood or documented, but stating it like in the text above is wrong.
Mirjam
Folks,
Amanda, Denesh, Sasha and I have put this presentation together for
On 17/10/2019 14:58, Brian Nisbet wrote: the community plenary this afternoon. It is forthright, but we definitely feel that it needs to be so.
We are going to make it clear that we're still accepting comments
on v3.0, but also still looking at having this in place for RIPE 80 if at all possible.
I know I and others present in Rotterdam have got some really good
further feedback.
And, of course, as with all things, whatever CoC we have is never
set in stone, it's always changeable as situations change.
Thanks for everyone's input on this so far!
Brian
Brian Nisbet Service Operations Manager HEAnet CLG, Ireland's National Education and Research Network 1st Floor, 5 George's Dock, IFSC, Dublin D01 X8N7, Ireland +35316609040 brian.nisbet@heanet.ie <mailto:brian.nisbet@heanet.ie>
www.heanet.ie <http://www.heanet.ie>
Registered in Ireland, No. 275301. CRA No. 20036270
_______________________________________________ diversity mailing list diversity@ripe.net <mailto:diversity@ripe.net> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/diversity
_______________________________________________ diversity mailing list diversity@ripe.net <mailto:diversity@ripe.net> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/diversity
_______________________________________________ diversity mailing list diversity@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/diversity
We’re working on amending the text. Sasha
On 17 Oct 2019, at 15:36, Amanda Gowland <agowland@ripe.net> wrote:
When the TF asked for clarity on the remit of the Trusted Contacts, we were informed on the list that:
"Yes, I would argue that there are examples where the trusted contacts together with the RIPE chair have taken actions successfully. Maybe we weren't so good at reporting back to the community (which of course would help with the perception part)."
and
"As Trusted Contacts, our primary responsibility is confidentiality of the report to us. Our training was as a "vertrouwenspersoon," although fortunately for me that was the only part of the training that took place in Dutch.
This makes the production of reports somewhat difficult as above all we do not want those who have reported an issue to us to feel they could be identified through that report -- or that in future they do not report an issue for fear of being identified (the simple act of writing down the report is even something to consider).
We do report back to Hans Petter, and we are currently working on a report but with the figures quite abstracted as a result. If others that have been involved in similar work elsewhere have examples of the level of public report we could be producing, they would be welcome. So far, my suggestion is that it is no more detailed than something along the lines of the following categories:
- "In-meeting behaviour"; - "Behaviour at social events"; - "Mailing list behaviour"
The number of reports we do receive is, as that report will show, quite low. "
On 17/10/2019 15:33, Sasha Romijn wrote:
I am definitely confused, because the text as written in the notes is precisely how I heard it multiple times from at least one of the other trusted contacts.
Sasha
On 17 Oct 2019, at 15:29, Brian Nisbet <brian.nisbet@heanet.ie> wrote:
Mirjam,
Ok, so, then there is confusion, and, if you could help, what can they do?
I can edit and re-upload.
Brian
Brian Nisbet, Service Operations Manager, HEAnet From: Mirjam Kuehne <mir@ripe.net> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2019 3:22:58 PM To: Brian Nisbet <brian.nisbet@heanet.ie>; diversity@ripe.net <diversity@ripe.net> Subject: Re: [diversity] Community Plenary Presentation
Hi,
On slides 5 in the speaker notes (which I assume will be published?) it says:
""Trusted contacts will emotionally support you, but absolutely can not take any other action. Effectively, our CoC creates a false sense of security. So our community’s current status is: if you get severely harassed at the party, which is a thing that happens, we can say how sorry we are for you, and tomorrow and next year your assailant will be sitting next to you. There is a CoC, but there is no accountability or consequences.”"
This is not true and as I pointed out earlier on this list the Trusted contacts (and the RIPE Chair) have taken action in the past. I agree that the responsibilities of the Trusted Contacts may not be well understood or documented, but stating it like in the text above is wrong.
Mirjam
On 17/10/2019 14:58, Brian Nisbet wrote:
Folks,
Amanda, Denesh, Sasha and I have put this presentation together for the community plenary this afternoon. It is forthright, but we definitely feel that it needs to be so.
We are going to make it clear that we're still accepting comments on v3.0, but also still looking at having this in place for RIPE 80 if at all possible.
I know I and others present in Rotterdam have got some really good further feedback.
And, of course, as with all things, whatever CoC we have is never set in stone, it's always changeable as situations change.
Thanks for everyone's input on this so far!
Brian
Brian Nisbet Service Operations Manager HEAnet CLG, Ireland's National Education and Research Network 1st Floor, 5 George's Dock, IFSC, Dublin D01 X8N7, Ireland +35316609040 brian.nisbet@heanet.ie www.heanet.ie Registered in Ireland, No. 275301. CRA No. 20036270
_______________________________________________ diversity mailing list diversity@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/diversity
_______________________________________________ diversity mailing list diversity@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/diversity
_______________________________________________ diversity mailing list diversity@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/diversity
_______________________________________________ diversity mailing list diversity@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/diversity
participants (6)
-
Amanda Gowland -
Brian Nisbet -
Daniel Karrenberg -
Julia Freeman -
Mirjam Kuehne -
Sasha Romijn