October 2019 - ripe-db-requirements-tf

Requirements for the RIPE Database... or Databases?
by Shane Kerr 18 Nov '19

18 Nov '19

Fellow TF members, tl;dr Do we want to explicitly say that we are making requirements for separate databases? (Probably with separate requirements.) More words follow... I was thinking about starting off a discussion about stakeholders in the RIPE Database, and I quickly remembered that the RIPE Database is at least two and maybe more databases in one. We have the number registry: * IP address assignments (hierarchical) * ASN assignments (semi-hierarchical) We have the routing registry: * Routes * Routers * Other routing policy information in various objects & attributes We have some DNS information, which is used to configure DNS delegation in DNS servers that the RIPE NCC maintains: * Reverse DNS domains We have abuse/security information: * "Incident Response Team" (a.k.a. CERT) * Various attributes (abuse-c, remarks, ...) We have the last remains of attempts at lighthearted fun: * Poems We have contact information used by everything (secondary data, cleaned up automatically if not referenced by something else): * Organisations * Persons * Roles We have the authentication/authorization that protects stuff (also secondary data, although I don't think cleaned up automatically): * Maintainers * PGP & X.509 certificates Finally, I'd like to note that there is a highly-coupled database, which is the RIPE NCC member database. The RIPE NCC keeps all kinds of non-public information, some of which is pushed to the RIPE Database (like organization contact information), some of which the RIPE Database has specific access to (like SSO authentication), and some of which is never entered into the RIPE Database (like billing status). So... do we want to explicitly say that we are making requirements for separate databases? 😄 Cheers, -- Shane

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archive
by ripedenis＠yahoo.co.uk 25 Oct '19

25 Oct '19

Hi guys Are you using this email for your discussions and is it publicly archived as Hans Petter suggested? cheersdenis

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RIPE DB Requirements - F2F
by Bijal Sanghani 24 Oct '19

24 Oct '19

Here’s the doodle for the face to face, can you please complete this by Tuesday 28th October - https://doodle.com/poll/pa6znwp39yxgp7h8 Let’s aim for a 9am start and finish by 4:30pm so those traveling can most likely get a flight home that evening, if that’s a problem for anyone please let me know. Thanks, Bijal

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RIPE BD Requirements - next meeting
by Bijal Sanghani 23 Oct '19

23 Oct '19

Hi everyone, Can you all please complete the doodle by Monday 28th October, so we can confirm our next conference call - https://doodle.com/poll/dhpgr3sc8tv9auab I’ll send a separate doodle for our face to face shortly. Thanks, Bijal

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@EXT: RE: Workshop?
by Marcolla, Sara Veronica 23 Oct '19

23 Oct '19

Good morning, +1 for the second week of December, and one full day would be my preferred option but anything goes. Thank you! Sara -----Original Message----- From: ripe-db-requirements-tf <ripe-db-requirements-tf-bounces(a)ripe.net> On Behalf Of Peter Koch Sent: 21 October 2019 12:23 To: Bijal Sanghani <bijal(a)euro-ix.net> Cc: ripe-db-requirements-tf(a)ripe.net Subject: Re: [ripe-db-requirements-tf] Workshop? Mornin', On Mon, Oct 21, 2019 at 11:14:13AM +0100, Bijal Sanghani wrote: > Agree, especially given our tight deadlines. I’ll check with the RIPE Board and see what options we have. I guess we can use the RIPE NCC office, does Amsterdam work for everyone? make sense to me and I'd believe that our friendly NCC staff can guide regarding the details since other TFs have had in-person gatherings already. > And who from the team would need support attending the meeting? Just a reminder: the list is publicly archived. I'd prefer 1st or 2nd week of December; two "half" days or one full day, depending on travel times. Thanks, Peter ******************* DISCLAIMER : This message is sent in confidence and is only intended for the named recipient. If you receive this message by mistake, you may not use, copy, distribute or forward this message, or any part of its contents or rely upon the information contained in it. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail and delete the relevant e-mails from any computer. This message does not constitute a commitment by Europol unless otherwise indicated. *******************

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Workshop?
by james＠kennedyipam.com james＠kennedyipam.com 21 Oct '19

21 Oct '19

Good afternoon, Don't mean to jump the gun but may I suggest we schedule a face-to-face workshop before the end of the year to discuss the meatier aspects of our assignment? I think such a session would be quite productive for our work, potentially save us a lot of time and energy, and also it's nice to sync in person. Piotr told me the RIPE NCC provided some basic financial support (for transport and accommodation) so previous Task Forces could meet. Said he would check with Felipe if similar support could be afforded to us. Regards, James

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Follow-up items from face-to-face meeting at RIPE 79
by Shane Kerr 17 Oct '19

17 Oct '19

Friends, I talked to Hans Petter Holen last night, and neither of us were sure who is allowed to update the charter or approve (or not) proposed changes. 😉 Given that, I think we're okay to update the items to deliver and the associated dates, as per my previous mail with a proposed updated charter. Hans Petter was not super enthusiastic about adding people to the task force. I am sure that he can be convinced, but clearly I fucked up by inviting Théophile along to our meeting. I'm basically happy for Théophile to join or not, whatever we think makes the most sense. I talked to Denis Walker this morning, and let him know that at least I will be at the Database Working Group session tomorrow to explain what this task force is. He looks forward to lots of detailed discussion about the requirements document, and especially his own involvement in that. Cheers, -- Shane

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RIPE Database Requirements Task Force - updated timeline
by Shane Kerr 16 Oct '19

16 Oct '19

Hello friends, We discussed the charter at our face-to-face kick off meeting today. We decided to slightly modify the time line. I think that we agreed to change our first deliverable to an outline/summary of what the requirements document will have, and add a second deliverable of a full first draft a couple of months before RIPE 80. So, something like this: The task force will start its work at [RIPE 79] (https://ripe79.ripe.net/ "RIPE 79, 14-18 October 2019") and produce an outline of the requirements document by December 2019. The task force will deliver a *first* draft by March 2020. The task force will deliver a document for last-call at RIPE 81 in October 2020. If the community does not achieve consensus by RIPE 81, the task force will give a report listing the open issues and propose a plan to resolve them. The resulting charter would then look like: RIPE Database Requirements Task Force Daniel Karrenberg & friends *Version 1.2* ### Rationale The RIPE Database is now almost 30 years old [[ripe-13]] (https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-013 "RIPE Databases"). During all this time, the community has developed the functionality of the Database incrementally. Today some new frictions have emerged such as changing privacy requirements and the use of the RIPE DB by parties outside the traditional community, specifically law enforcement. Because of these frictions and changing needs, the community consensus about the functionality of the RIPE DB has become less obvious. Therefore it is now time to take stock and to establish a clear consensus about what functionality the RIPE DB should provide in the future. ### Charter The RIPE Database Requirements task force shall develop a RIPE document listing all the [requirements] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Requirements_engineering "Wikipedia") for the RIPE DB and their rationales. The task force is a small and focused drafting team of two to five persons and not a representative body. The task force will consult the RIPE community and other interested parties. Consensus building will take place in the appropriate RIPE working groups and possibly specific BoFs. The task force will regularly publish draft versions of the document. ### Document Scope The purpose of the document is to establish community consensus at the general level. The document will be the new requirements specification for the RIPE DB. It shall provide clear guidance for the evolution of RIPE DB functionality, including the removal of current functionality that is no longer required. The document will prioritise requirements as much as possible. The document shall list the purpose of each RIPE DB function and consider the relevant privacy aspects, making the document useful in the context of privacy regulations such as the GDPR. The document shall allow easy updates as community needs change. Software development, deployment and other implementation details are out of scope. Despite being scoped as a requirements document, the document shall not prescribe a specific engineering methodology for subsequent steps in the process. ### Methodology The RIPE Chair shall appoint the task force after a call for volunteers. Volunteers are expected to contribute significant amounts of text and to collect community feedback. The task force will regularly publish revised drafts based on this feedback. The task force may conduct BoF sessions to discuss drafts with the community. ### Time Line The task force will start its work at [RIPE 79] (https://ripe79.ripe.net/ "RIPE 79, 14-18 October 2019") and produce an outline of the requirements document by December 2019. The task force will deliver a *first* draft by March 2020. The task force will deliver a document for last-call at RIPE 81 in October 2020. If the community does not achieve consensus by RIPE 81, the task force will give a report listing the open issues and propose a plan to resolve them. Cheers, -- Shane

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Re: [ripe-db-requirements-tf] [db-wg-chairs] Welcome to the RIPE Database Requirements Task Force
by Bijal Sanghani 16 Oct '19

16 Oct '19

Hi Denis, Thanks for the invite, Shane will be at the wg tomorrow and will give a quick update. Kind regards, Bijal > On 9 Oct 2019, at 20:59, denis walker <dw100uk(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > > Hi Guys > > Would one of you be willing to act as a spokesperson and give a short introduction in the DB-WG session on Thursday? Just outlining who you all are and what your plans for the coming months are. > > cheers > denis > > co-chair DB-WG > > On Tuesday, 8 October 2019, 14:51:54 CEST, Bijal Sanghani <bijal(a)euro-ix.net> wrote: > > > Hi Hans Petter, > > I am happy to be here and it’s nice to see a good competent list of volunteers, I look forward to working with you all :) > > Please use this (bijal(a)euro-ix.net <mailto:bijal@euro-ix.net>) email address for me and my bio is below. > > Regarding the first meeting at the coming RIPE meeting, I am there for a really short time and would appreciate it if we could meet during one of the below slots; > > 1. After 5pm on Tuesday > 2. Wednesday breakfast 8am > 3. Wednesday lunch > 4. Wednesday after NCC Services wg > 5. Thursday Breakfast 8am > 6. Thursday during the first session (AA and IPv6) > > I created a doodle to collect replies - https://doodle.com/poll/mwqnqm5e7he73mpv <https://doodle.com/poll/mwqnqm5e7he73mpv> > > In terms of agenda, since the meeting is next week, here’s a first draft proposal; > > 1. Welcome > 2. Select chairs > 3. Agree systems and tools i.e. google docs / dropbox / Trello etc > 4. Agree charter - any changes? > 5. Agree high level requirements and next steps > 6. Take aways and actions/timelines > 7. Next meeting > > Please let me know if I have missed anything, I look forward to seeing you next week and hope one of the time slots above works for us all. > > Kind regards, > Bijal > > Bijal’s experience includes DNS management for DEMON Internet, Provisioning Engineer at Level 3 and Senior Operations Engineer at FLAG Telecom and Reliance Globalcom, where she was involved from the beginning to build the FLAG IP network. > > In her role at Euro-IX she brings the members together to share ideas and experiences on technical, commercial and regulatory matters, and works on other IXP related projects such as the IXPDB and support programs to help IXPs in need. > > Bijal has been involved with the Peering and Interconnect Community since 2003, she’s been a RIPE NCC Services Working Group Co-chair since 2005 and was elected on to the PeeringDB Board in 2017 where she currently serves as a Director. > > >> On 8 Oct 2019, at 09:53, Hans Petter Holen <hph(a)oslo.net <mailto:hph@oslo.net>> wrote: >> >> Thank you all for volunteering to the database task force. >> I have noted the following volunteers, which I believe to be a good composition: >> >> * Peter Koch >> * Shane Kerr >> * Nick Hilliard >> * Bijal Sangani >> * Sara Marcolla >> * James Kennedy >> >> I will ask the RIPE NCC to set up a web page and a publicly archived mailing-list for the Task Force. >> >> Please confirm that you are still willing to participate and which email address you would like to subscribe to the list. >> Also, send us a short bio to be published on the taskforce page in order to provide transparency to the larger community. >> >> Since the RIPE community and the database working group will potentially have to implement the findings from the working group, database working group chairs and eventually the RIPE Chair may have to evaluate consensus on the proposal, so I believe it is better for us not to be directly involved. We will of course be following the work and give advice when needed. >> >> It would be great if you could find time to meet and select one or two chairs for the task force during the RIPE meeting. >> I have also set aside time on the agenda for the RIPE Community Plenary on Thursday >> https://ripe79.ripe.net/programme/meeting-plan/ripe-community/ <https://ripe79.ripe.net/programme/meeting-plan/ripe-community/> >> for the chair to present the charter, members and timeline, as well as opening for community input. >> >> The RIPE NCC will provide reasonable administrative support if needed, and legal support, since this task force may touch upon legal obligation of the RIPE NCC. >> >> There has been no comments to the draft charter, which I have included here for your reference. >> >> RIPE Database Requirements Task Force >> >> Daniel Karrenberg >> >> *Version 1.1* >> >> ### Rationale >> The RIPE Database is now almost 30 years old [[ripe-13]] >> (https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-013 <https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-013> "RIPE Databases"). >> During all this time, the community has developed the functionality of >> the Database incrementally. Today some new frictions have emerged such >> as changing privacy requirements and the use of the RIPE DB by parties >> outside the traditional community, specifically law enforcement. Because >> of these frictions and changing needs, the community consensus about the >> functionality of the RIPE DB has become less obvious. Therefore it is >> now time to take stock and to establish a clear consensus about what >> functionality the RIPE DB should provide in the future. >> >> ### Charter >> The RIPE Database Requirements task force shall develop a RIPE document >> listing all the [requirements] >> (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Requirements_engineering <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Requirements_engineering> "Wikipedia") for >> the RIPE DB and their rationales. The task force is a small and focused >> drafting team of two to five persons and not a representative body. The >> task force will consult the RIPE community and other interested parties. >> Consensus building will take place in the appropriate RIPE working >> groups and possibly specific BoFs. The task force will regularly publish >> draft versions of the document. >> >> ### Document Scope >> The purpose of the document is to establish community consensus at the >> general level. The document will be the new requirements specification >> for the RIPE DB. It shall provide clear guidance for the evolution of >> RIPE DB functionality, including the removal of current functionality >> that is no longer required. >> >> The document will prioritise requirements as much as possible. The >> document shall list the purpose of each RIPE DB function and consider >> the relevant privacy aspects, making the document useful in the context >> of privacy regulations such as the GDPR. The document shall allow easy >> updates as community needs change. >> >> Software development, deployment and other implementation details are >> out of scope. Despite being scoped as a requirements document, the >> document shall not prescribe a specific engineering methodology for >> subsequent steps in the process. >> >> ### Methodology >> The RIPE Chair shall appoint the task force after a call for volunteers. >> Volunteers are expected to contribute significant amounts of text and to >> collect community feedback. The task force will regularly publish >> revised drafts based on this feedback. The task force may conduct BoF >> sessions to discuss drafts with the community. >> >> ### Time Line >> The task force will start its work at [RIPE 79] >> (https://ripe79.ripe.net/ <https://ripe79.ripe.net/> "RIPE 79, 14-18 October 2019") and produce the >> *first* draft by December 2019. The task force will deliver a document >> for last-call at RIPE 81 in October 2020. If the community does not >> achieve consensus by RIPE 81, the task force will give a report listing >> the open issues and propose a plan to resolve them. >> >> -- >> Sincerely, >> Hans Petter Holen - hph(a)oslo.net <mailto:hph@oslo.net> - +47 45066054 >

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In-person meeting at RIPE 79
by Shane Kerr 15 Oct '19

15 Oct '19

Hello all, Looking at the Doodle poll that Bijal set up: https://doodle.com/poll/mwqnqm5e7he73mpv I see three slots where 4 people are available. Shall we choose the first available time, which is today (Tuesday) at 17:00? Once we agree on a time, I can try to arrange for a room to meet in. Cheers, -- Shane

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