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Re: [ripe-list] [Fwd: Re: CoC and the PDP]
by Amanda 21 Oct '19

21 Oct '19

Alex, While I'm happy to see that the CoC is receiving more input, perhaps you are not aware that this whole process has been going on for over a year, discussed transparently on the list with updates at the subsequent RIPE Meetings. The statistics on the process, edits, participation are in the slide deck that the TF presented on Thursday. The community HAS come up with a CoC, we've been working on it for awhile. We are not asking for the entire thing to be scrapped - that would be a huge setback to the community - and I think it's becoming more evident that we need a strong mechanism in place to protect people *now*. Did you watch the TF update at RIPE 78? Did you see the statistic about how many people reported being harassed - 38% - that's almost 4 in 10 people. A handful of people have been brave enough to come forward with their stories - which is absolutely terrifying to do, I may add - but then think about how many people haven't come forward. The CoC is not set in stone. We have repeatedly said this - this is new for the community and it is likely that we will discover that some things need to be tweaked. The last version of the document was already heavily reviewed by RIPE NCC Legal (see my previous messages on the diversity TF for that) - but there was confusion on the process because this document is different than anything that's come before and so we sought clarity from Hans Petter before moving forward. You are essentially making suggestions for things that we have already been doing. I believe - and many others have already voiced this - that there is strong support for this CoC. Sure, finessing and clarifying parts here and there, but I strongly disagree with your suggestions below. Amanda On 20/10/2019 22:31, Alex de Joode wrote: -- IDGARA | Alex de Joode | +31651108221 ------------------------------ *Subject:* Re: [ripe-list] CoC and the PDP *From:* Alex de Joode <adejoode(a)idgara.nl> *Date:* Sun, 20-10-2019 22h 29min *To:* Erik Bais <ebais(a)a2b-internet.com> *Cc:* Leslie <geekgirl(a)gmail.com>, "Sascha Luck [ml]" <lists-ripe(a)c4inet.net>, RIPE List <ripe-list(a)ripe.net> On Sun, 20-10-2019 19h 05min, Erik Bais <ebais(a)a2b-internet.com> wrote: Hi, I've been in the RIPE community and in the Dutch NOG community for quite a long time ... [..] On the topic back to the CoC ... I understand the requirement and urge us to proceed with clear version to move forwards. One of the items I would like to address is that we have in our community quite some people that may be on the autism spectrum or on the edge of it .. They might have some issues with deciding on what is socially acceptable or what the consequences are of certain text in the CoC .. They might not be able to decide, based on the text what is acceptable behaviour .. but not on a predatory way .. I would strongly suggest that we try to include them as much in these discussions and perhaps even better, ask some if they would be willing to proof read the document and provide feedback on what they think based on the CoC. If their reaction is going to be, I don’t understand the consequences of the document and I will just not give a hand or speak to someone when I'm at the RIPE meeting, or not come at all, we may need to look at the wording. On the topic of this should go through the PDP ? ... I think that the RIPE NCC should have a strong CoC ( that should also include the trainings and member lunches btw, not only the meetings.. ) The community can provide input, but as the official organiser, the NCC MUST (in my opinion) take a legal liability point here and draw the line of what is acceptable behaviour .. I think the NCC MUST take a lead here, with the input from the community and have the final say here and implement the new CoC asap. Regards, Erik Bais I know from stories of (former) co-workers who attended the same event(s) as I did, they did not feel comfortable and left the venue early. (me wondering where they were). This makes they were not particularly thrilled to join the next venue. So this issue is real issue, and it needs resolving. Question is, how do we solve it, or better how do we approach this as a problem. A good Code of Conduct clearly spells out what behaviour is (un)acceptable, and also gives clear guidelines on how to report a (percieved) incident. The current CoC lacks this. It's reads more as an activist pamphlet and an instruction guide to the "enforcement team". It also totally fails to protect the rights of the 'accused' (yes they have rights) and does not at all provide for 'due process'. Given the a-typical nature of tech conferences with, as Erik already pointed out, an over-representation of people who boarder in the spectrum, I feel only a CoC will not do. Therefor I suggest the following: 1. The community should come up with a specification for a CoC (what needs to be in it) 2. RIPE NCC come up with a text 3. The community and RIPE NCC come up with mitigating actions (akin to 'security by design'), are there ways to organise RIPE meeting this abuse/behaviour cannot happen. 4. Maybe investigate into introducing an 'Ombudsman'-like function. -- IDGARA | Alex de Joode | +31651108221

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[Fwd: Re: CoC and the PDP]
by Alex de Joode 20 Oct '19

20 Oct '19

-- IDGARA | Alex de Joode | +31651108221 Subject: Re: [ripe-list] CoC and the PDP From: Alex de Joode <adejoode(a)idgara.nl> Date: Sun, 20-10-2019 22h 29min To: Erik Bais <ebais(a)a2b-internet.com> Cc: Leslie <geekgirl(a)gmail.com>, "Sascha Luck [ml]" <lists-ripe(a)c4inet.net>, RIPE List <ripe-list(a)ripe.net> On Sun, 20-10-2019 19h 05min, Erik Bais <ebais(a)a2b-internet.com> wrote: > Hi, > > I've been in the RIPE community and in the Dutch NOG community for quite a long time ... > [..] > On the topic back to the CoC ... I understand the requirement and urge us to proceed with clear version to move forwards. > > One of the items I would like to address is that we have in our community quite some people that may be on the autism spectrum or on the edge of it .. > They might have some issues with deciding on what is socially acceptable or what the consequences are of certain text in the CoC .. > They might not be able to decide, based on the text what is acceptable behaviour .. but not on a predatory way .. > > I would strongly suggest that we try to include them as much in these discussions and perhaps even better, ask some if they would be willing to proof read the document and provide feedback on what they think based on the CoC. > > If their reaction is going to be, I don’t understand the consequences of the document and I will just not give a hand or speak to someone when I'm at the RIPE meeting, or not come at all, we may need to look at the wording. > > On the topic of this should go through the PDP ? ... I think that the RIPE NCC should have a strong CoC ( that should also include the trainings and member lunches btw, not only the meetings.. ) > The community can provide input, but as the official organiser, the NCC MUST (in my opinion) take a legal liability point here and draw the line of what is acceptable behaviour .. > > I think the NCC MUST take a lead here, with the input from the community and have the final say here and implement the new CoC asap. > > Regards, > Erik Bais > I know from stories of (former) co-workers who attended the same event(s) as I did, they did not feel comfortable and left the venue early. (me wondering where they were). This makes they were not particularly thrilled to join the next venue. So this issue is real issue, and it needs resolving. Question is, how do we solve it, or better how do we approach this as a problem. A good Code of Conduct clearly spells out what behaviour is (un)acceptable, and also gives clear guidelines on how to report a (percieved) incident. The current CoC lacks this. It's reads more as an activist pamphlet and an instruction guide to the "enforcement team". It also totally fails to protect the rights of the 'accused' (yes they have rights) and does not at all provide for 'due process'. Given the a-typical nature of tech conferences with, as Erik already pointed out, an over-representation of people who boarder in the spectrum, I feel only a CoC will not do. Therefor I suggest the following: * The community should come up with a specification for a CoC (what needs to be in it) * RIPE NCC come up with a text * The community and RIPE NCC come up with mitigating actions (akin to 'security by design'), are there ways to organise RIPE meeting this abuse/behaviour cannot happen. * Maybe investigate into introducing an 'Ombudsman'-like function. -- IDGARA | Alex de Joode | +31651108221

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2019 NRO NC Election Results
by Axel Pawlik 18 Oct '19

18 Oct '19

Dear colleagues, We are pleased to announce that Filiz Yilmaz was re-elected to the Number Resource Organization Number Council (NRO NC) at a plenary session of the RIPE 79 Meeting in Rotterdam on 18 October 2019. After completion of her current term on 31 December 2019, Filiz will begin another three-year term from 1 January 2020 to 31 December 2022. Details on the election process and the NRO NC are available online: https://www.ripe.net/nro/nro-rc/nominations2019 We would like to congratulate Filiz on her appointment. Best regards Axel Pawlik Managing Director RIPE NCC

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RIPE 79 Highlights - Day 4
by RIPE NCC Event Team 18 Oct '19

18 Oct '19

Dear Colleagues, The fourth day of RIPE 79 had 736 attendees checking in, including 188 newcomers. Yesterday was the second day of the Working Groups (WG): Anti-Abuse, IPv6, Routing, IoT, MAT and Database. For the first time, we held the RIPE community plenary - a forum to discuss matters that effect the community. The session was very well attended and can be viewed online. The highlights of Thursday are available at: https://ripe79.ripe.net/programme/report/#thu Today's the last day of the RIPE Meeting. If you can't attend in person, you can participate remotely: https://ripe79.ripe.net/live/main/ Stay tuned to what's happening at RIPE 79 by following @RIPEMeeting on Twitter and using the #ripe79 hashtag. Kind regards, Martina de Mas Event Organiser RIPE NCC

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Re: [ripe-list] [diversity] [comms-circle] Towards a more inclusive community
by Hank Nussbacher 17 Oct '19

17 Oct '19

On 17/10/2019 17:32, Julia Freeman wrote: Julie, at no time did I say it is not happening. I just said that *I *am clueless about it since I didn't see it or hear about it. Now that you have come forward as well as Jordi, hopefully people will be kinder and more importantly, if you see such behavior being imposed on someone else, and you are a bystander, then you should say something - not only the victim. -Hank > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Thu, Oct 17, 2019 at 04:10:47PM +0200, Amanda Gowland wrote: >> On 17/10/2019 16:08, Hank Nussbacher wrote: >>> On 17/10/2019 17:00, Leslie wrote: >>> >>> Indeed. I am clueless since I haven't seen a single incident >>> message among the various mailing lists. I would expect that RIPE >>> should name and shame those harassing people at meetings. I am >>> truly speechless that this goes on in 2019. >> I, too, am speechless. > What always amazes me with these things, whether it's at a ripe level, or > as we've seen wider in society. "But I haven't seen it" > >>>> Perhaps you are not the one being harassed and the folks who are >>>> haven't told you about their experiences. >>>>> I have not been to as many meetings as you but I have never seen any >>>>> incident, even in the slightest, where the people attending were acting >>>>> inappropriately in any sort of way. I consider RIPE meetings >>>>> extremely safe and inclusive, so just paint me clueless as to what the >>>>> issue is. > I've been to exactly 1 ripe meeting. Ripe 77. > > Within 3 minutes of arriving, while in the queue to pick up my badge, the > guy behind me in the queue was hitting on me and making me feel > uncomfortable. > > Three. > > Minutes. > > Part of what we are dealing with here is the "acting inappropriately in > any sort of way". What you consider appropriate behaviour may not be the > same as what I consider appropriate. > > While in the diversity lunch, there was a disagreement between myself and > another attendee. Someone who I've been told is known for being a pain. > That interaction left me stood outside the room in tears being comforted > by one of the approved contact people. I spent the rest of the event > trying to avoid being anywhere near that individual. > > It was suggested by one speaker that people talk to those in minorities > about the harrassment we experience both at RIPE and as members of the > wider tech community. Don't, if we want to volunteer the information we > will. But for most of us, we don't want to. We don't want to have to > relive it to tell it every time. > > I'm sat here at my laptop at home, watching the live stream, writing this, > in tears, as I relive the experiences. > > It hurts even more when people say "I've not seen it, so it can't be > happening". It devalues our experience. It's basically gaslighting. > > I don't want to talk about this shit. I don't want to be the one who has > to go to tech conferences and do presentations on how we can make a nicer > environment for everyone. But I realise that if I don't speak up, then I'm > doing a disservice to those who come after me. > > You may not have experienced it. You may not have seen it. But its there. > > Believe us. > > J > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQFdqHth42M0lILkmGIRAlsHAKCO+inrLZqMiuVm+0frOdVZuQO2yQCgrFco > GohEUBgA3N2Uzy7ck9bAo2E= > =JnLM > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >

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Who will be the next RIPE Chair .... and Vice Chair ?
by Daniel Karrenberg 17 Oct '19

17 Oct '19

Dear RIPE participants, Next year, a nominations committee (NomCom) will select two people to fill the positions of RIPE Chair and Vice Chair, with help from the wider community. As chair of the 2019-2020 RIPE NomCom, I invite you to nominate candidates for these positions. As members of the RIPE community, you will have some idea of what the RIPE Chair is responsible for and what kind of person you would like to see in this role - and the revived Vice Chair role. Please think about suitable candidates, talk with them, discuss this with your peers, and nominate people who will have the support of the community. You may nominate any member of the RIPE community for either position. Self-nominations are also permitted. NomCom members are not eligible to be considered. You might also consider volunteering for the NomCom. I have made a separate call for this, which you can find on the ripe mailing list. Send your nominations to <nominations(a)ripe-nomcom.org> and include a description of the skills or expertise that make your candidate a desirable choice. Please also include a working email address or telephone number for the nominee and indicate whether they are aware of your nomination. The Nomcom will also be interested in your opinion about the performance of the incumbent, Hans Petter Holen. The deadline for all nominations is Sunday, 15 December 2019. You can find more information in the relevant RIPE Documents: ripe-714: A brief description of the RIPE Chair’s role. ripe-727: Information about the selection process. ripe-728: Detailed information about the NomCom I am happy to answer any further questions you may have. Daniel Karrenberg Chair of the 2019-2020 RIPE NomCom

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RIPE CoC Draft v3.0
by Brian Nisbet 17 Oct '19

17 Oct '19

Colleagues, Contrary to other reports, as clarified by Hans Petter, the Diversity TF will not be seeking consensus on the new RIPE Meeting Code of Conduct during the Community Plenary at 16:00 CEST today, Thursday 17th October. However the TF is still working towards this CoC and we would like to share the most recent draft with you: https://www.ripe.net/participate/meetings/ripe-meetings/ripe-meeting-code-o… This draft will form the basis of the discussion this afternoon, and into the future, and we have asked the NCC for an Impact Analysis based upon it. As always, if you wish to work on this, and we would encourage people from all parts of the RIPE Community to do so, please join us in the Diversity TF: https://www.ripe.net/participate/ripe/tf/ripe-diversity-task-force Brian On Behalf of the RIPE Diversity TF Brian Nisbet Service Operations Manager HEAnet CLG, Ireland's National Education and Research Network 1st Floor, 5 George's Dock, IFSC, Dublin D01 X8N7, Ireland +35316609040 brian.nisbet(a)heanet.ie www.heanet.ie Registered in Ireland, No. 275301. CRA No. 20036270

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RIPE 79 Highlights - Day 3
by RIPE NCC Event Team 17 Oct '19

17 Oct '19

Dear Colleagues, The third day of RIPE 79 had 711 attendees checking in, including 181 newcomers. Wednesday was all about Working Groups (WG): Address Policy, Cooperation, Connect, DNS, Open Source and ended with RIPE NCC Services. This day was also emotional as Axel Pawlik, RIPE NCC Managing Director, announced that he will step aside for a new generation of leaders after 20 years of service. But we also had fun celebrating networks that have signed their Route Origin Authorisations (ROAs) at the Incredible ROAs party. The highlights of yesterday are available at: https://ripe79.ripe.net/programme/report/wednesday Today is again dedicated to WGs (Anti-Abuse, IPv6, Routing, IoT, MAT, Database) and will end with the RIPE Community plenary. If you can't attend the WGs here in person, you can participate remotely: https://ripe79.ripe.net/live/main/ Stay tuned to what's happening at RIPE 79 by following @RIPEMeeting on Twitter and using the #ripe79 hashtag. Kind regards, Martina de Mas Event Organiser RIPE NCC

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Axel Pawlik Stepping Down as RIPE NCC Managing Director
by Christian Kaufmann 16 Oct '19

16 Oct '19

Dear colleagues, Today, at the RIPE 79 Meeting in Rotterdam, Axel Pawlik announced that he would step down as Managing Director of the RIPE NCC. Axel's announcement comes 20 years to the day since he joined the organisation. The Executive Board would like to extend its sincere gratitude to Axel for his outstanding service to the RIPE NCC membership and the RIPE community over the past two decades. The RIPE NCC had 1,600 members in 1999 when Axel joined, and during his tenure the organisation has grown to well over 20,000 members. This massive increase corresponds with the growth of the Internet into a tool that is essential to billions of people around the world. Axel's assured leadership meant that the RIPE NCC was more than able to meet the challenges involved in that growth. As the Internet grew, new actors became involved in the Internet ecosystem, and Axel embraced the role of representing the technical community to governments and intergovernmental organisations, making the voice of our community heard at the highest levels. He worked closely with RIPE Chairs Rob Blokzijl and Hans Petter Holen to develop the RIPE community as it not only grew but also incorporated new participants, developed new topics for discussion, and dealt with no small amount of contentious issues that needed to be addressed professionally and effectively. Axel was also integral to efforts to grow technical communities throughout our service region, and he was instrumental in the establishment of the ENOG, MENOG and SEE communities. He is personally proud of the RIPE NCC's efforts to accommodate the voices of everyone who is interested in the development of the Internet. Axel's very first Managing Director's Report in 2000 concluded with "... we look forward to continue working on the solid foundation of the RIPE NCC principles of neutrality, impartiality and openness to serve the Internet community and especially the RIPE NCC membership." Axel continued to make this the core sentiment of the RIPE NCC for 20 years. For this, and for so much more, we thank Axel and we look forward to his continued involvement in our community. The Executive Board will quickly start the process of recruiting a new Managing Director. In the meantime, the Board has appointed a new Management Team of Gwen van Berne (CFO), Kaveh Ranjbar (CIO) and Felipe Victolla Silveira (COO), who will lead the RIPE NCC and ensure there is continuity of service and operations during the interim period. Kind regards, Christian Kaufmann RIPE NCC Executive Board Chairman

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Code of Conduct 3.0
by Malcolm Hutty 16 Oct '19

16 Oct '19

Dear all, I understand that on Thursday afternoon the RIPE Plenary will be invited to adopt “Code of Conduct v3.0”. Unfortunately I must leave Rotterdam at lunchtime, so I am writing to share with you my reasons for believing it should not be approved. Code of Conduct v3.0 proposes the creation of a new entity, the “CoC Team” who will be invested with the power to hear allegations of breach of the Code of Conduct and decide what sanctions, if any, to apply to the community member in violation. Planned sanctions include, amongst other things, 1. Not allowing someone to participate further in RIPE Meetings and/or other RIPE community spaces, for a set period or an indefinite period 2. A public reprimand 3. Requiring that a public apology is made Denying someone the opportunity to participate in RIPE is clearly a serious step. Issuing a public reprimand, or requiring a public apology (i.e. admission of guilt) is potentially seriously damaging to a person’s reputation. Since a public reprimand might make reference to the purposes of the Code, including the prevention of sexual harassment and racist abuse, and assert that the person was found to have violated the Code, but not necessarily say what the individual is alleged to have actually done, a public reprimand from the CoC team could have lasting impact on a person’s career prospects. It is therefore a matter of great importance to every member of this community that if such sanctions are ever applied, the most scrupulous process is used. Unfortunately, in my view the process set out in Code of Conduct 3.0 is very far from fit for purpose. For a start, given the gravity of the intended sanctions, I am stunned to see that the Code neither requires nor suggests that the CoC Team should attempt to speak to the accused individual to get their side of the story. Indeed, there is no requirement that the accused person is even informed of the details of the allegation against them. A public reprimand could be the first the subject hears of the matter. The right to be heard before being punished is not an obscure legalistic procedural device. It is fundamental to basic fairness. Granted, a right of appeal has been added to the Code (thank you Daniel Karrenberg for your urgent intervention!), but I do not think appeal after the fact is sufficient correction to a basically abusive process. Although the most egregious, that is far from the only flaw with Code of Conduct 3.0. It positively encourages anonymous complaints. Complaints are also encouraged not only from alleged “victims”, but also from “witnesses” The Code promises that the identity of the complainant will not be disclosed to the subject of the complaint, potentially making it impossible to understand the circumstances or provide an explanation. The person submitting a complaint is not disqualified under the Code from sitting as a member of the CoC Team adjudicating the complaint. Given that the Code also invites witness reports and assures witnesses that their reports will not be viewed less favourably because they have made multiple reports, it would be entirely consistent with the Code for the CoC Team to also act as as a Code of Conduct patrol, making reports of violations and then sitting in judgement on their own allegations. Thanks to anonymity, nobody outside the CoC team would even know if this were occurring. There are other problems, but this message is already too long. Throughout the Code, the emphasis is consistently on the CoC Team’s responsibility to the reporter. There is no such recognition of a responsibility to the person ‘under investigation’ – by which I mean, the person who is the subject of the complaint; there is actually no expectation set in the Code that the CoC Team would actually conduct an investigation, rather than proceeding directly to judgement on the basis solely of the information contained in the allegation. I have described some serious flaws, but in my view, it is not worth trying to rescue this proposal with patches to each of them. The document as a whole is riddled with bias, and should be abandoned. The Diversity Taskforce has demonstrated that it is not an appropriate body to be undertaking this work. Any serious attempt to create a process for enforcement of a Code of Conduct should be predicated on the basis that a grievance and disciplinary process (which is what this is) owes a serious duty of fairness to all parties, not only to one side. Malcolm. -- Malcolm Hutty | tel: +44 20 7645 3523 Head of Public Affairs | web: www.linx.net London Internet Exchange | London Internet Exchange Ltd Monument Place, 24 Monument Street London EC3R 8AJ Company Registered in England No. 3137929 Trinity Court, Trinity Street, Peterborough PE1 1DA

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