==> On Fri, 19 Sep 1997, ==> "RNMR" == RIPE NCC Meeting Registration wrote: RNMR> Please accept my apologies for sending these out so late. Please accept my apologies for replying so late :-) Couple of comments: RNMR> 9. Technical Reports RNMR> - TEN-34 (Steven Bakker) RNMR> Impromptu presentation by Steven Bakker. I believe that's putting it friendly :-) RNMR> A map of the current TEN-34 network was shown. RNMR> Many countries now connected, network is operational and works. RNMR> see http://www.dante.org/ for more information That should be: http://www.dante.org.uk/ten-34 or http://www.dante.net/ten-34 RNMR> plans to start a new project done by smaller subset of RNMR> National Research Networks (NRN's) RNMR> Questions: RNMR> Peter Galvaby: what are the peering policies? RNMR> Steven Bakker: basically no policies, no real peering. RNMR> Must be careful to coordinate with European Commission on RNMR> peering agreements. RNMR> European Commission has restrictions on usage of network. RNMR> AT&T Unisource gives them transit as part of IP service they offer. RNMR> BT also gives them transit. Many of networks themselves have RNMR> bi-lateralarrangements with other networks. In discussion RNMR> too peer with EBONE. Latest news on that is that EBONE withdrew from the discussions. They are no longer interested in direct peerings with TEN-34, since they get the routes through their AT&T-Unisource peerings. RNMR> This will replace the European network RNMR> 2 remaining "customers" in Czech Republic and Hungary. RNMR> How many overhead from ATM? RNMR> Steven Bakker: about 17% RNMR> Marten Terpstra: Will the network actually reach 34Mbps in all countries RNMR> before the project will finish (2 year project) RNMR> Mike Norris: they reached "10" :-) Depends on whether you count access speed or backbone speed. Most of the backbone is >20M. Access speeds vary, but the majority is >20M. Given the cost of international high-speed circuits (see below) and the fact that the current bandwidth is not exhausted yet, upgrading for the sake of upgrading is not very wise. RNMR> Steven explained main problem is to do with prices/availability of RNMR> 34Mbps RNMR> in each country. In some cases this doesn't make sense since ACONEt is RNMR> hooked up to DFN who have to share this with other networks... I'd like to qualify that statement: the problem is not with price/ availability of _national_ circuits, but _international_ circuits out of certain (many) countries. Also, there is a cost distribution model within TEN-34, so the cost of _backbone_ (i.e. shared) lines is shared amongst all the participants. I though I did mention this, but given the short preparation time I had it may not have been a very clear story. RNMR> Rob Blokzijl: Too little, too late. Took 2 year organisation to get a RNMR> network going for a year..what about a follow-up? Organising too late. RNMR> commercial business is moving ahead with the development of bandwith RNMR> in Europe before R&D organisations are.. Rob says there are RNMR> plans for 622Mbps to come into AMS-IX My reply to that was that there is currently no pan-European high speed network on the scale of TEN-34. Sure, there are high speed islands all over Europe, many NRNs have a high speed national infrastructure. The problem is getting a *pan-European* high-speed network. In that respect, I believe TEN-34 is a first. Cheers, Steven