An interesting observation, and a question: Nearly six months ago now, on February 24th of this year, Russia began a "special military operation" against the sovereign nation of Ukraine. Since that time, fully three quarters of the member nations of the United Nations voted to condemn this unprovoked military action, and numerous nations in both Europe and all around the world have adopted extreme sanctions against Russia in response it its actions in Ukraine. These sanctions cover the gamut of economically important trade relations, including energy, banking, and high-technology goods. Despite all of the foregoing, I have just checked the archives for this mailing list for the past six months and it appears that in all of these past six months there has not even been so much as a single mention of Russia or the Ukraine War, or the ongoing threats coming out of Russia against NATO nations, EU nations, and European nations generally. Why? Are all members of the Internet community in the RIPE region so reluncant to even mention the word "Russia" because you all hope to just keep doing business as usual, even as Europe is plunged into the most destructive and deadly military conflict since the Second World War? Are all of you so completely focused on your bottom lines that you can turn a blind eye to the daily slaughter of innocent civilians, including children, in Ukraine? To put it another way: What exactly *is* the excuse of the RIPE region membership as it does its level best to pretend that there isn't even a European war going on? The best analogy I can think of is the Swiss during the NAZI era. It appears that, As long as the gold keeps coming in, everybody's happy. Regards, rfg P.S. I fully expect this post will be censored, because apparently nobody in Europe wants to even talk about all of the helpful network interconnections that are being supplied by EU/NATO nations to Russia, even after six months of unprovoked carnage and more than 10,000 Ukrainian's dead and 10 million displaced. That's OK. The European Internet community can continue to pretend that nothing has happened, and go on with business as usual, but the world knows better, and history will not forget the self-serving cowardice of the RIPE community in this time of deadly conflict.
"Ronald F. Guilmette" writes:
An interesting observation, and a question:
My observation is that you jump to conclusions based on thin air. If you just did a minimun of research as in a search for "ripe Russia" you would have been better informed. jaap PS. Just spewing accusiaonnd whils you are at it, look up Godwin's law.
In message <202208141023.27EANvpw090884@bela.nlnetlabs.nl>, Jaap Akkerhuis <jaap@NLnetLabs.nl> wrote:
"Ronald F. Guilmette" writes:
An interesting observation, and a question:
My observation is that you jump to conclusions based on thin air.
I do not. I observe. Show me all of the discussions that have taken place here on this list, since the outbreak of the war, about Russia and its actions, and about what the proper response to those actions should be among those who value life above money. You can't, because there haven't been any.
If you just did a minimun of research as in a search for "ripe Russia" you would have been better informed.
Done! I see this, which is just a lot of institutional platitudes: https://www.ripe.net/participate/member-support/the-ripe-ncc-and-ukraine-rus... "An Open Internet Remains the Goal" That certainly _sounds_ like a very high-minded and principled response. But is it just purely coincidental that this goal happens to align nicely with the goal of European network operators to maintain their current level of profitability. despite annoying little interferences like war, carnage, and human tragedy on a grand scale? In any case, I would neither have hoped for nor expected anything different from the various organs of what passes for Internet governance, such as ICANN and RIPE. None of these believe that it is their responsibility to intervene in any way, and perhaps they are right in taking such hands-off posisions. Time will tell. My comments were not directed at them, but rather to the myriad individual European transit providers and IXes that continue to do a robust business with Russia, even as hundreds or thousands of other western companies have curtailed or entirely ceased doing business with Russia. What excuses do each of these individual companies offer up for their maintenance of both the pre-war status quo and their own profitable movement of packets? If the only excuses they can offer up are some lame platitudes about the free flow of information, e.g. so that the populace in Russia can learn the truth about what their government is doing, then I have a free clue to offer: Six months in and that ain't working. Like not at all. The BBC's recently reinvigorated shortwave radio service is likely doing a better job of getting the truth to Russians, at present, than all of the IP packets flowing in or out of the country. What *is* being manitained however is connections to Russian web sites, thus allowing Russia to continue selling its goods and services to China, India, and the other remaining countries that still desire to do business with this rogue nation. Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it, and it saddens me greatly to see that Europe has either forgotten the primary lesson of the 1930s, or else has failed to learn it at all, i.e. that a failure to forcefully confront agression at its outset is a mistake that will be paid for in blood many times over, and usually by people other than the ones who made the mistake. Disconnect Russia! This isn't the job of RIPE, or ICANN, or anybody else. It is the moral duty of each of you reading these words, as individual ethical and moral beings. Regards, rfg
On 14 Aug 2022, at 13:47, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
Disconnect Russia!
This isn't the job of RIPE, or ICANN, or anybody else. It is the moral duty of each of you reading these words, as individual ethical and moral beings.
The relationship between EU (and other States) and Russia, and because of this between us individuals and Russia, is dealt with elsewhere than at RIPE. It has been demonstrated for you how the issue have been discussed and deal with in RIPE. Regarding EU and disconnecting Russia, that has already been discussed as part of the sanctions discussions, and this resulted in conclusion related to the 6th sanction package that can be found here <https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX%3A32022R0880&from=SV&fbclid=IwAR1EKpRiJIvxHo6VuqYZxyzngZCrkf0BfzyXO27DdBC_rB-ZCXiC-uJIu7A>:
Regulation (EU) No 269/2014 is amended as follows:
(1) the following article is inserted:
‘Article 6c
Article 2 shall not apply to funds or economic resources that are strictly necessary for the provision of electronic communication services by Union telecommunication operators, for the provision of associated facilities and services necessary for the operation, maintenance and security of such electronic communication services, in Russia, in Ukraine, in the Union, between Russia and the Union, and between Ukraine and the Union, and for data centre services in the Union.’
Patrik
In message <6D84E84E-C44C-4433-A21E-E18C30FFFE0F@frobbit.se>, =?utf-8?b?UGF0cmlrIEbDpGx0c3Ryw7Zt?= <paf@frobbit.se> wrote:
The relationship between EU (and other States) and Russia, and because of this between us individuals and Russia, is dealt with elsewhere than at RIPE.
Exactly! And if you will be kind enough to point me at the European equivalent/counterpart to our NANOG (North American Network Operators' Group) mailing list, then I shall depart immediately to share my message of personal responsibility over on that mailing list, instead of this one. I have however found no such pan-European network operators' group OR associated mailing list, other than ripe-list. Was my research just inadequate? If so, please do enlighten me!
It has been demonstrated for you how the issue have been discussed and deal with in RIPE.
Yes, and as I think I've already made plain, I don't care about the official response of RIPE. RIPE has to do what RIPE has to do. I've posted here in an effort to try to reach individual network operators throughout Europe. If there is a better place to do that, then please let me know what it is. I'm all ears!
Regarding EU and disconnecting Russia, that has already been discussed as part of the sanctions discussions, and this resulted in conclusion related to the 6th sanction package that can be found here...
You really just aren't getting this are you? Governments, for their own reasons, can and will make the decisions that suit them. The EU is such a governmental entity, and it has reached a decision that is now *mandated* throughout the EU. Individuals and individual companies are free to go further than the "official" set of EU sanctions (and many have)... a set of sanctions which were arguably chosen so as not to excessively offend any "important" economic interests within any of the EU nations... much like the situation with the ongoing Russian energy imports. And that is exactly what I am suggesting, i.e. that individuals and individual companies on the Internet can and should go beyond the minimalist sanctions that ALL of the EU member states were able to agree upon, unanimously. Those sanctions are and should be viewed as a minimal *floor*, i.e. the bare minimum that any and every company and person in the EU should be willing to abide by. Any person and any network operator can do more than the minimum required by the current EU sanctions. And some have. I have merely suggested that it is a moral imperative to do more, and to do so now. If this is at all controversial then I believe that that says more about Europe and the people and companies within it, than it does about me. Regards, rfg
On 15 Aug 2022, at 09:03, Ronald F. Guilmette <rfg@tristatelogic.com> wrote:
Yes, and as I think I've already made plain, I don't care about the official response of RIPE.
In that case, take your whines somewhere else. This list is for general discussion about RIPE matters. But since you don't care about that, you're clearly posting to the wrong place. And since you don't care about RIPE (NCC)'s response, you've no reason to expect anyone here to care about what you have to say.
You really just aren't getting this are you?
No, it's you who really isn't getting this. For starters, you don't seem to understand the difference between RIPE and RIPE NCC. Or how to get "policy" changed in these two fora. For RIPE, submit a policy proposal and put it through the PDP. For the NCC, members can ask for agenda time and/or propose a resolution at the AGM. Second, invoking Godwin's law or "won't anyone think of the children?" rhetoric is unhelpful. That usually means the proponent has lost the debate and can't make a reasoned case for their PoV. Third, you've given no indication why RIPE (NCC)'s stance is unsatisfactory or what could be done to make it better. For some definition of better. If you have *constructive* proposals on what RIPE or the NCC could do in addition to the current sanctions, please make them. RIPE's PDP is open to everyone. The NCC's members are free to propose resolutions at the *GMs. Start with a clear problem statement and then show how your proposal(s) will fix it. IMO it's highly unlikely that a bunch of Internet geeks wagging their finger at Mr. Putin and putting him on RIPE's naughty step will make any difference to his ugly war in Ukraine. Let's face it, the international sanctions that are hurting Russia and Putin's cronies haven't made a difference. Rather indulge in virtue-signalling, I think all of us could do far more good by helping refugees or contributing to relief efforts or putting pressure on our politicians to put more pressure on the Kremlin to stop the carnage. Or any combination of these three things.
In message <7A091DEE-27A3-4992-A3BC-840E5724D084@rfc1035.com>, Jim Reid <jim@rfc1035.com> wrote:
On 15 Aug 2022, at 09:03, Ronald F. Guilmette <rfg@tristatelogic.com> wrote: Yes, and as I think I've already made plain, I don't care about the official response of RIPE.
In that case, take your whines somewhere else. This list is for general discussion about RIPE matters.
Fine. Show me the mailing list that I can use to reach a maximal number of actual network operators within Europe. Show me the European equavalent and counterpart to NANOG. I'll wait.
But since you don't care about that, you're clearly posting to the wrong place. And since you don't care about RIPE (NCC)'s response, you've no reason to expect anyone here to care about what you have to say.
You obviously care.
You really just aren't getting this are you?
No, it's you who really isn't getting this. For starters, you don't seem to understand the difference between RIPE and RIPE NCC. Or how to get "policy" changed in these two fora. For RIPE, submit a policy proposal...
Has anything I've said indicate that I'm looking for a policy change from RIPE? I'm not. That would be a fools quest.
Third, you've given no indication why RIPE (NCC)'s stance is unsatisfactory or what could be done to make it better. For some definition of better.
I did not indicate that I felt it was. You're projecting your own mental framework onto what I actually have said. What I actually did say is that the organs of internet governance are, quite understandably, extremely limited in what they are able to do, even in response to such unique a world-changing events as war. And even the EU is having a hard time finding a consensus response to the events in Ukraine since late February. But as I have also observed individual companies can and have, on their own initiative, and without being forced to do so by any authority, elected to curtail their business with Russia since the beginning of the conflict. If this fact is not apparent to you, then please allow me to share with you some reference material: https://som.yale.edu/story/2022/over-1000-companies-have-curtailed-operation...
If you have *constructive* proposals on what RIPE or the NCC could do in addition to the current sanctions...
I do not. I never said I did. Like the EU, RIPE is limited to doing only what can achieve unanimous or near unanimous consensus. That's extremely limiting. But individual companies certainly have the freedom to go beyond the bare minimum of what either RIPE or the EU would have them do. (Over a thousand companies that have done that are named at the URL given above.) I have merely come here to suggest that more European companies act independently and follow suit by going beyond what is mandated in the way of cutting ties to Russia.
IMO it's highly unlikely that a bunch of Internet geeks wagging their finger at Mr. Putin and putting him on RIPE's naughty step will make any difference to his ugly war in Ukraine. Let's face it, the international sanctions that are hurting Russia and Putin's cronies haven't made a difference.
Apparently, your news sources are different than mine.
Rather {than} indulge in virtue-signalling...
Is that what the 1,000+ companies on the list above are doing? Mere virtue-signalling? Since the start of the war, British Petroleum (BP) has elected to disconnect itself entirely from the projects it was involved with in Russia. Some estimates put the cost to BP of this move at over $25 billion dollars. That's a lot of virtue-signalling!
I think all of us could do far more good by helping refugees or contributing to relief efforts or putting pressure on our politicians to put more pressure on the Kremlin to stop the carnage. Or any combination of these three things.
You're entitled to your opinion, of course, as I am to mine. Regards, rfg
Greetings! We are preparing for the Ukrainian part of IGF http://igf-ua.org/en/ this fall. I think that the topics raised fit into our military history of Ukraine... I take the courage to invite those who wish to attend the cybersecurity section, which I have been leading all these years, and I am ready to allocate time for discussion. -- З повагою, Іван Пєтухов 15/08/2022 10:24, Patrik Fältström via ripe-list написав:
On 14 Aug 2022, at 13:47, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
Disconnect Russia!
This isn't the job of RIPE, or ICANN, or anybody else. It is the moral duty of each of you reading these words, as individual ethical and moral beings.
The relationship between EU (and other States) and Russia, and because of this between us individuals and Russia, is dealt with elsewhere than at RIPE. It has been demonstrated for you how the issue have been discussed and deal with in RIPE.
Regarding EU and disconnecting Russia, that has already been discussed as part of the sanctions discussions, and this resulted in conclusion related to the 6th sanction package that can be found here <https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX%3A32022R0880&from=SV&fbclid=IwAR1EKpRiJIvxHo6VuqYZxyzngZCrkf0BfzyXO27DdBC_rB-ZCXiC-uJIu7A>:
Regulation (EU) No 269/2014 is amended as follows:
(1) the following article is inserted:
‘Article 6c
Article 2 shall not apply to funds or economic resources that are strictly necessary for the provision of electronic communication services by Union telecommunication operators, for the provision of associated facilities and services necessary for the operation, maintenance and security of such electronic communication services, in Russia, in Ukraine, in the Union, between Russia and the Union, and between Ukraine and the Union, and for data centre services in the Union.’
Patrik
On 14/08/2022 13:47, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
Show me all of the discussions that have taken place here on this list, since the outbreak of the war, about Russia and its actions, and about what the proper response to those actions should be among those who value life above money.
Dear Ronald, My suspicion is that RIPE community is more "doers" oriented and not so much "talkers". We can have all the discussion in the world about how bad the aggression is - but that doesn't help much Ukraine operators to keep people connected at their homes or in the shelters while bombs are falling down. At this point I would like to thank the RIPE community for such a great response to help Ukraine people with participating in GNA "Keep Ukraine Connected" initiative. Some of you joined the initiative, some of you donated network equipment, some of you sent us money for fiber splicers and many of you are still trying to figure out how to participate in a meaningful way. Thanks to all of you in the name of the whole KUC team. Cheers, Jan Žorž member of GNA/KUC team
The problem in the sovereign nation of Ukraine which is created by the Russian leader (I refuse to believe that the majority of Russians stand behind this war) is basically the same as all the other BIG worldwide problems. Individuals have the power to make decisions that have an impact on others (think about the current Russian leader, but also governments, kingdoms, churches etc.). Most of us all want the same thing and that is to pass on a good live to those next to u like for example your children. Humans will have to start acting as one instead of acting as Russians, Ukrainians, Europeans, Chinese, Americans and all the other territorial groups/countries etc. Without acting as one, mankind is basically doomed! The world can be a better place, but to get back at your question, RIPE isn't capable of interferring with the war (this problem is to big for a single organisation). The only thing we all can do is look at your local leaders and kick their arses for not solving the above. The problems are getting worser by the minute and leaders only try to keep the problems outside of their borders. We shouldn't wanna have leaders like that and I surely don't want any borders at all since that creates the "It's not my problem answer" and in turn that makes it impossible to solve certain big problems like overpopulating, the fight for land and resources etc etc. We need a good code to live by instead of individuals that have the power to tell how things are going to be. We all should remember that we come into this world with nothing and we also leave with nothing, but we leave behind a mess for those that stay behind when we have left! Is that what u all want for your children? I'm sorry if this is a bit off-topic but it's still all about abuse! Kind regards, Jeroen -----Original Message----- From: ripe-list <ripe-list-bounces@ripe.net> On Behalf Of Ronald F. Guilmette Sent: zondag 14 augustus 2022 00:02 To: ripe-list@ripe.net Subject: [ripe-list] Russia An interesting observation, and a question: Nearly six months ago now, on February 24th of this year, Russia began a "special military operation" against the sovereign nation of Ukraine. Since that time, fully three quarters of the member nations of the United Nations voted to condemn this unprovoked military action, and numerous nations in both Europe and all around the world have adopted extreme sanctions against Russia in response it its actions in Ukraine. These sanctions cover the gamut of economically important trade relations, including energy, banking, and high-technology goods. Despite all of the foregoing, I have just checked the archives for this mailing list for the past six months and it appears that in all of these past six months there has not even been so much as a single mention of Russia or the Ukraine War, or the ongoing threats coming out of Russia against NATO nations, EU nations, and European nations generally. Why? Are all members of the Internet community in the RIPE region so reluncant to even mention the word "Russia" because you all hope to just keep doing business as usual, even as Europe is plunged into the most destructive and deadly military conflict since the Second World War? Are all of you so completely focused on your bottom lines that you can turn a blind eye to the daily slaughter of innocent civilians, including children, in Ukraine? To put it another way: What exactly *is* the excuse of the RIPE region membership as it does its level best to pretend that there isn't even a European war going on? The best analogy I can think of is the Swiss during the NAZI era. It appears that, As long as the gold keeps coming in, everybody's happy. Regards, rfg P.S. I fully expect this post will be censored, because apparently nobody in Europe wants to even talk about all of the helpful network interconnections that are being supplied by EU/NATO nations to Russia, even after six months of unprovoked carnage and more than 10,000 Ukrainian's dead and 10 million displaced. That's OK. The European Internet community can continue to pretend that nothing has happened, and go on with business as usual, but the world knows better, and history will not forget the self-serving cowardice of the RIPE community in this time of deadly conflict. -- To unsubscribe from this mailing list, get a password reminder, or change your subscription options, please visit: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/ripe-list
-- Alex Semenyaka On Mon, Aug 15, 2022 at 9:41 AM <jeroen@hackersbescherming.nl> wrote:
The problem in the sovereign nation of Ukraine which is created by the Russian leader (I refuse to believe that the majority of Russians stand behind this war) is basically the same as all the other BIG worldwide problems.
The problem is that the sovereign nation of Ukraine was never created by "the Russian leader", so you are repeating a provocative false statement.
Your post, Ronald, fully quoted below for the redigestion by your target audience, just to quite likely be followed up once more by hefty throw-ups, is of such blatantly appaling ignorance, that it took me quite some efforts in self-conviction to pass the "DON'T YOU EVER FEED THE TROLL!" threshold. But here we go: you may want to familiarize yourself with the "Keep Ukraine connected" initiative. Just to mention *ONE* community effort in this regard. And let me finish with a personal plea: could you please find yourself other playgrounds where people might actually be more prone to accept your insults and your delusional censorship theories? That would at least help me to reduce on my blood pressure meds again. On 14.08.2022 00:01, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
An interesting observation, and a question:
Nearly six months ago now, on February 24th of this year, Russia began a "special military operation" against the sovereign nation of Ukraine. Since that time, fully three quarters of the member nations of the United Nations voted to condemn this unprovoked military action, and numerous nations in both Europe and all around the world have adopted extreme sanctions against Russia in response it its actions in Ukraine. These sanctions cover the gamut of economically important trade relations, including energy, banking, and high-technology goods.
Despite all of the foregoing, I have just checked the archives for this mailing list for the past six months and it appears that in all of these past six months there has not even been so much as a single mention of Russia or the Ukraine War, or the ongoing threats coming out of Russia against NATO nations, EU nations, and European nations generally.
Why?
Are all members of the Internet community in the RIPE region so reluncant to even mention the word "Russia" because you all hope to just keep doing business as usual, even as Europe is plunged into the most destructive and deadly military conflict since the Second World War? Are all of you so completely focused on your bottom lines that you can turn a blind eye to the daily slaughter of innocent civilians, including children, in Ukraine?
To put it another way: What exactly *is* the excuse of the RIPE region membership as it does its level best to pretend that there isn't even a European war going on?
The best analogy I can think of is the Swiss during the NAZI era. It appears that, As long as the gold keeps coming in, everybody's happy.
Regards, rfg
P.S. I fully expect this post will be censored, because apparently nobody in Europe wants to even talk about all of the helpful network interconnections that are being supplied by EU/NATO nations to Russia, even after six months of unprovoked carnage and more than 10,000 Ukrainian's dead and 10 million displaced. That's OK. The European Internet community can continue to pretend that nothing has happened, and go on with business as usual, but the world knows better, and history will not forget the self-serving cowardice of the RIPE community in this time of deadly conflict.
In message <72136d1a-6d94-11b2-571b-522a291e5617@schiefner.de>, Carsten Schiefner <ripe-wgs.cs@schiefner.de> wrote:
And let me finish with a personal plea: could you please find yourself other playgrounds where people might actually be more prone to accept your insults...
Who have I insulted, other than the Russian government, all those who are, by their actions, effectively proping it up, and those who value money above the lives of innocents? (I do not and shall not appologize if I have insulted any of these). I also won't apologize for raising anyone's blood pressure. That is, I think a rather minimal price for you to pay, in relative terms, while innocent children are being wantonly slaughtered. Regards, rfg
Wow, How I missed this "if you are not with us, you are against us" calls. Seriously: you made your point, could you leave it at that, please. RIPE is the wrong playground for this in my opinion. As far as I understand, RIPE should not use its resources to make political impact, at the end of the day RIPE is a network service NGO. To interfere with communication abilities should be triggered by governments, only. Could be wrong, but this my opinion. If your point was to reach out to people and make a statement pro Ukraine: got it, thanks for the reminder, end of communication. There are plenty of communities and social networks, where private people can put effort into helping ukrainian people with the situation, or make (imo useless) "fckptn" statements. RIPE mailing list is no such place. Cheers, Peter -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: ripe-list <ripe-list-bounces@ripe.net> Im Auftrag von Ronald F. Guilmette Gesendet: Montag, 15. August 2022 09:19 An: ripe-list@ripe.net Betreff: Re: [ripe-list] Russia In message <72136d1a-6d94-11b2-571b-522a291e5617@schiefner.de>, Carsten Schiefner <ripe-wgs.cs@schiefner.de> wrote:
And let me finish with a personal plea: could you please find yourself other playgrounds where people might actually be more prone to accept your insults...
Who have I insulted, other than the Russian government, all those who are, by their actions, effectively proping it up, and those who value money above the lives of innocents? (I do not and shall not appologize if I have insulted any of these). I also won't apologize for raising anyone's blood pressure. That is, I think a rather minimal price for you to pay, in relative terms, while innocent children are being wantonly slaughtered. Regards, rfg -- To unsubscribe from this mailing list, get a password reminder, or change your subscription options, please visit: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/ripe-list
In message <0179b1838aa0431d812be7a7b40cf784@yellowfox.net>, Peter Stimpel <peter@yellowfox.net> wrote:
Wow, How I missed this "if you are not with us, you are against us" calls.
I gather that it is altogether easy to be both cavalier towards and dismissive of any attempts to seriously discuss the topic of personal ethical responsibilities in response to these world-changing events in Eastern Europe, at least while the view is from your comfortable and no doubt air-conditioned office in Kesselsdorf, far far from the actual carnage.
Seriously: you made your point, could you leave it at that, please. RIPE is the wrong playground for this in my opinion.
I say yet again, show me the European equivalent to the NANOG mailing lists that we here in North America have and i will be only too happy to go there and raise these issues. I've checked here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_network_operators%27_group and although there seems to be no shortage European country-specific network operator groups (and associated mailing lists) I'm not seeing any pan-European place where I could make my case to network operators throughout Europe. (This, to me, is rather incomprehensible, especially given the number of European networking companies that have connections in more than one European country, but this is only one of the smaller points that mystify me about the seemingly determined and deliberate dis-unity in Europe.)
As far as I understand, RIPE should not use its resources to make political impact
And I have not suggested otherwise. Just because I elected to raise the issue of our _individual_ responses to the war in Ukraine here on ripe-list doesn't not automatically imply that I either expect or even hope for any formal response from RIPE itself. I don't. This just seems to be the one and only mailing list in the entire universe where it might be possible to communicate with a large number of individual European network operators.
If your point was to reach out to people and make a statement pro Ukraine: got it, thanks for the reminder, end of communication.
My goal was to reach a maximal number of European network operators and to put it to them all that they can and should join with the over 1,000 companies on the following list and curtail their business relations with Russia: https://som.yale.edu/story/2022/over-1000-companies-have-curtailed-operation...
There are plenty of communities and social networks, where private people can put effort into helping ukrainian people with the situation, or make (imo useless) "fckptn" statements. RIPE mailing list is no such place.
Thanks, but Facebook and Twitter are clearly not going to be effective venues for reaching European network operators, specifically. And if I have left any doubt, let me be clear that this was and is my goal. I'd like to ask each and every one of you folks here who are decision makers and who run European networks how well you can sleep, knowing that you continue to provide connectivity to an aggressor nation, relentlessly bent on a 19th century style war of territorial conquest in Eastern Europe, and whose government ruthlessly annihilates any and all opposition, both within its own borders, and even, when they need arises, on the streets of London. Regards, rfg
On 14.08.22 00:01, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
Despite all of the foregoing, I have just checked the archives for this mailing list for the past six months and it appears that in all of these past six months there has not even been so much as a single mention of Russia or the Ukraine War, or the ongoing threats coming out of Russia against NATO nations, EU nations, and European nations generally.
That seems to be a gross misrepresentation of the facts. There were various discussion on the mailing list: https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/ripe-list/2022-March/002462.html https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/ripe-list/2022-March/002471.html https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/ripe-list/2022-March/002474.html https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/ripe-list/2022-March/002476.html https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/ripe-list/2022-March/002479.html https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/ripe-list/2022-March/002484.html https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/ripe-list/2022-March/002493.html https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/ripe-list/2022-April/002499.html And Ukraine was front and center in Ripe84: https://ripe84.ripe.net/archives/video/738 https://ripe84.ripe.net/archives/video/739 https://ripe84.ripe.net/archives/video/810 Best regards, Joel
On 14-08-2022 00:01, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote ... The archives have sufficient examples of the waste of bandwidth by this person. Let's save everyone's time and continue to ignore his provocations. Daniel
In message <171d5ee3-7acf-f516-05df-dd3547e8bd12@karrenberg.net>, Daniel Karrenberg <dfk@karrenberg.net> wrote:
The archives have sufficient examples of the waste of bandwidth by this person. Let's save everyone's time and continue to ignore his provocations.
By all means, please continue as Europeans to just ignore both me and also the war raging on your very doorstep. Ignoring reality would seem to be one of the things you folks excel at, which goes a long way towards explaining why you're all having such trouble getting natural gas right about now, even though Ronald Reagan warned you all to avoid becoming too dependent on Russian energy, way back in the 1980s. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/30/business/europe-natural-gas.html Regards, rfg
On 13 Aug 2022, at 23:01, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
An interesting observation, and a question:
Please, everybody, this thread is now closed. I have asked the moderators to block all further follow-up mails. Best regards, Niall O'Reilly RIPE Vice-Chair
participants (13)
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Alex Semenyaka -
Carsten Schiefner -
Daniel Karrenberg -
Jaap Akkerhuis -
Jan Zorz - Go6 -
jeroen＠hackersbescherming.nl -
Jim Reid -
Joel Busch -
Niall O'Reilly -
Patrik Fältström -
Peter Stimpel -
Ronald F. Guilmette -
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