Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 10:23:05 +0200 From: Berthold Paffrath <bp@nic.dtag.de>
My problem is, as with all these new frame-based web sites: If I follow some links up to "Registries ordered by country code", then select one of these - how do I go "one page back" to the overview? The "<-" button of netscape just leads me to the previous non-framed web site... This might be a netscape bug, but it seems that explicit "back" buttons would be helpful until the bug gets fixed :-)
My problem is, as with all these flame-based web sites ... Even http://www.netscape.com/ shows its home-page to poor man's browsers, why can't the RIPE-NCC ? I always thought the RIPE-NCC is a technical network coordination centre whose info's should be accessible as broadly as possible and not a shopping-mall for Netscape shareholders (sorry for this one ;-} Please make your info-site "Lynx"able again, and make all Java/Frames and other "kinky" features optional ! My personal opinion, anyway, always interested in others of course ! Christian
"Christian Panigl, ACOnet/UniVie +43 1 4065822-383" <panigl@cc.univie.ac.at Even http://www.netscape.com/ shows its home-page to poor man's browsers, why can't the RIPE-NCC ? I always thought the RIPE-NCC is a technical network coordination centre whose info's should be accessible as broadly as possible and not a shopping-mall for Netscape shareholder s (sorry for this one ;-}
We totally agree with you on this one. That is why we have made two versions of the site. The fancy one you complain about had all the bells and whistles including frames and many graphics. The other is mainly text and uses standard HTML only. The problem is that we automatically detect whether your browser is frames capable and give you the fancy version if it is. There were basically three choices we could make: 1) Determine the browser's capabilities and choose a version accordingly. 2) Always show a selection page for the user before showing the home page 3) Always show the non-fancy home page with a selection button to choose the fancy version. You seem to favour option three. This one did not fall well with those that argued our site should look flashy and we whould show off all the design work we did. :-). We plan to have a button on the framed version to select the non framed one though. It was one of these things that wasn't ready at the last second. You can choose the non framed version now by using a browser not capable of frames (if you dislike frames/netscape). Alternatively you can just link to http://www-new.ripe.net/cgi-bin/noframes/translate?html/noframes/homepage.ht....
Please make your info-site "Lynx"able again, and make all Java/Frames and other "kinky" features optional !
The site is Lynxable as Lynx does not do frames it will use the non-framed version.
My personal opinion, anyway, always interested in others of course !
Mine too. Daniel
There were basically three choices we could make: 1) Determine the browser's capabilities and choose a version accordingly. 2) Always show a selection page for the user before showing the home page 3) Always show the non-fancy home page with a selection button to choose the fancy version. You seem to favour option three. This one did not fall well with those that argued our site should look flashy and we whould show off all the design work we did. :-). If 1) is guaranteed to always work (provided the problem with the <- and -> buttons is fixed), then it's the perfect one. If you're not 100% sure, 3) is the best option, especially since content is more important than design, although this opinion is not shared by commercial sites. :-) And contents are just great on the RIPE website! Piet
Piet Beertema writes:
There were basically three choices we could make: 1) Determine the browser's capabilities and choose a version accordingly. 2) Always show a selection page for the user before showing the home page 3) Always show the non-fancy home page with a selection button to choose the fancy version.
You seem to favour option three. This one did not fall well with those that argued our site should look flashy and we whould show off all the design work we did. :-).
If 1) is guaranteed to always work (provided the problem with the <- and -> buttons is fixed), then it's the perfect one.
Since this is bloating out of the proportion anyway (IMO) I just might add that the <- and -> buttons which seem to concern so much all netscape 2.0X users have been fixed since early betas of Netscape 3.0, so please wait for 3.0 to be release or if you want to mess with a little buggy code, upgrade today. (or give up netscape) Pete
I agree with Piet: the RIPE website contents are really good, and option (3) is the best in the circs, not least because the simple home page loads fast - this is a feature which web page designers ignore at their peril. Cheers. Mike
Please make your info-site "Lynx"able again, and make all Java/Frames and other "kinky" features optional ! Fully supported! Stick to the basics: they'll do. Piet
Folks ... I'm just an interested outsider, so please take these comments with a grain of salt. Seems to me that the secretariat worked very hard and did a wonderful job. All this nitpicking on "you should have done this" or "you should have done that" is nice, but I thought RIPE was based on "I should do this" or "I should do that." Seems to me that you have a "Lynxable" site already ... if you come in via Lynx it gives you very appropriate output. If you are using a fancy browser but don't like the "kinky" features, it takes a single hop of your mouse to the text portion, followed by the technically difficult manoeuver of "Add to Bookmarks." ;)) It's easy to edit the work of a secretariat, but I guess I'm just pleased that they're working hard and making forward motion. Sure is a difference from some of the other Internet administrative bodies. Carl According to Piet Beertema:
Please make your info-site "Lynx"able again, and make all Java/Frames and other "kinky" features optional ! Fully supported! Stick to the basics: they'll do.
Piet
If you are using a fancy browser but don't like the "kinky" features, it takes a single hop of your mouse to the text portion, followed by the technically difficult manoeuver of "Add to Bookmarks." ;)) Bookmarks are not meant as a workaround for webservers using non-universal non-standard-HTML feature. And in my view especially an organisation like RIPE should be universally accessible, without workarounds, and thus should stick to the HTML basics. It's easy to edit the work of a secretariat, but I guess I'm just pleased that they're working hard and making forward motion. Sure is a difference from some of the other Internet administrative bodies. That's very true, but it doesn't change the issue that is being addressed here. Piet
My, we've become inflexible in our old age. ;))
Bookmarks are not meant as a workaround for webservers using non-universal non-standard-HTML feature. And in my view especially an organisation like RIPE should be universally accessible, without workarounds, and thus should stick to the HTML basics.
They did. You have two versions. It works ... give them a break. They did a good job. Be gracious and applaud their initiative! This is *NOT* a standards issue: they carefully support every non-feature that you wish to avoid in their Lynxable-version.
In message <199607151340.JAA05836@trystero.media.org> you write:
My, we've become inflexible in our old age. ;))
Bookmarks are not meant as a workaround for webservers using non-universal non-standard-HTML feature. And in my view especially an organisation like RIPE should be universally accessible, without workarounds, and thus should stick to the HTML basics.
They did. You have two versions. It works ... give them a break. They did a good job. Be gracious and applaud their initiative!
The problem appears to be that from the announcement of the new pages on Friday until this morning there appeared to only be the one, "Netscape Enhanced" version -- both Mosaic and Lynx returned less than useful blank pages. Not wanting to burden this list with the matter, I sent mail to webmaster@ripe.net over the weekend (as I suspect others did too) pointing out the problems. Today this list seems to have been full, on the one side, of complaints from people who either haven't looked at www.ripe.net since this morning (or who haven't refreshed the pages in their local caches) and, on the other, people who didn't look at (or try to look at) the new pages over the weekend saying that were no problems. Can we please bring this argument to a close. I think that the important point, that the information on www.ripe.net should be readily available irrespective of browser, has been made and RIPE have updated the pages to make this so. James ======= ___ === James Aldridge, Network Engineer, ====== / / / ___ ____ _/_ ==== EUnet Communications Services BV ===== /--- / / / / /___/ / ===== Singel 540, 1017 AZ Amsterdam, NL ==== /___ /___/ / / /___ /_ ====== Tel. +31 20 6233803; Fax. +31 20 6224657 === ======= [ 24hr emergency number +31 20 4210865 ]
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 10:23:05 +0200 From: Berthold Paffrath <bp@nic.dtag.de>
My problem is, as with all these new frame-based web sites: If I follow some links up to "Registries ordered by country code", then select one of these - how do I go "one page back" to the overview? The "<-" button of netscape just leads me to the previous non-framed web site... This might be a netscape bug, but it seems that explicit "back" buttons would be helpful until the bug gets fixed :-)
My problem is, as with all these flame-based web sites ...
Even http://www.netscape.com/ shows its home-page to poor man's browsers, why can't the RIPE-NCC ? I always thought the RIPE-NCC is a technical network coordination centre whose info's should be accessible as broadly as possible and not a shopping-mall for Netscape shareholders (sorry for this one ;-}
Please make your info-site "Lynx"able again, and make all Java/Frames and other "kinky" features optional !
My personal opinion, anyway, always interested in others of course !
Christian
The site works fine with lynx and Mosaic 2.7 for me. Just no anoying frames. :) Ray
participants (8)
-
Carl Malamud [IMS] -
Christian Panigl, ACOnet/UniVie +43 1 4065822-383 -
Daniel Karrenberg -
James Aldridge -
Mike Norris -
Petri Helenius -
Piet Beertema -
Ray Davis