Re: [ripe-list] [comms] It's 2018, why are the RIPE hotels still using "booking forms"??
Dear Martina, (RIPE List copied on purpose) First and foremost, this was not intended as a criticism of yourself or anyone involved in the planning and running of the RIPE meetings. I am sure I speak for everyone when I say that your meetings are among the best in the industry. I am not particularly concerned about the use of PDF forms even if they are completely unecessary and inconvenient in light of the alternatives, but we (the RIPE community) should be concerned about how "sensitive" information such as credit card details are handled. Adding those details to the form may make it easier for us to make the booking, but it does not make it more secure. (We can have philo- sophical arguments about what the hotel might subsequently handle our credit card numbers some other time). Ironically, most (all?) of the hotels seems to handle online bookings via https:// so it's tempting to propose an engineering solution (aka Small Matter of Programming [SMOP]) to use the same mechanism with some kind of "RIPE Discount Code." But that's an implementation detail. In my opinion, we should be encouraging proper and secure use of Internet technologies so I would suggest that this should be added to the checklist for future negotiations with hotels. Happy New Year! Ole Ole J. Jacobsen Editor and Publisher The Internet Protocol Journal Office: +1 415-550-9433 Cell: +1 415-370-4628 Docomo: +81 090 3337-9311 E-mail: olejacobsen@me.com Skype: organdemo On Fri, 12 Jan 2018, Martina de Mas wrote:
Hi Ole, all,
I've spoken with the hotels about this. The hotels don't provide an online registration link but I can have the webforms changed to include credit card details.
When we arranged everything with the hotels a year ago, they had a policy in place where they couldn't have credit card details sent via email. This policy has recently changed.
I expect to receive these new forms soon and will publish them on the website as soon as I do.
If you ever have any questions/comments about the processes we use for attendee administration for the meetings, please feel free to email me at <meetings@ripe.net>.
Warm regards, Martina
Conference Coordinator RIPE Network Coordination Centre
On 11/01/2018 19:13, Ole Jacobsen wrote:
Hi,
Every one of the hotels listed at https://ripe76.ripe.net/venue/accommodation/ provide PDF forms (not even PDF-fillable ones) for the booking. The one I completed wants me to:
"In order to confirm your booking, please contact the hotel to proceed to the payment: - By credit card that must be given by phone to the hotel."
This really should not be the state of affairs these days.
Ole (who is sure he is channeling more people than Randy Bush)
Ole J. Jacobsen Editor and Publisher The Internet Protocol Journal Office: +1 415-550-9433 Cell: +1 415-370-4628 Docomo: +81 090 3337-9311 E-mail: olejacobsen@me.com Skype: organdemo
On 12 Jan 2018, at 16:27, Ole Jacobsen <olejacobsen@me.com> wrote: Ironically, most (all?) of the hotels seems to handle online bookings via https:// so it's tempting to propose an engineering solution (aka Small Matter of Programming [SMOP]) to use the same mechanism with some kind of "RIPE Discount Code." But that's an implementation detail. In my opinion, we should be encouraging proper and secure use of Internet technologies so I would suggest that this should be added to the checklist for future negotiations with hotels.
Whilst I agree that we should be encouraging this, it is easier said than done to have the hotel companies apply this. With my UKNOF and DNS-OARC hats on, I know how difficult it is to get online links or booking codes which can be used online for delegates… especially in Europe. Hilton are one of the very few brands that can accommodate this.. the others generally do not have the processes in place. Most of the online booking systems are central reservations, so when it comes to booking a particular hotel at delegate rates, the hotel has to do things manually via their group bookings team… by PDF and/or phone. When I get presented with a list of hotels by the accommodation search team, I ask which ones can be booked online at delegate rates and end up with just a couple of hotels at most. It is frustrating, but we can only work with what is available. I have turned down hotels because of this, and have given them the necessary feedback as to why.. but they know they can still fill the rooms, so are not that bothered. We then also have to consider convenience for delegates during their stay.. how close is the hotel to the venue, etc. Where the venue is the hotel, then there are contractual and cost considerations. It is frustrating, but we are where we are. All we can do is try and encourage them to change… but in my experience over the last few years, that is not enough. I am unsure what else can be done. Regards Denesh
On 12 Jan 2018, at 16:43, Denesh Bhabuta <dblists@icloud.com> wrote:
Whilst I agree that we should be encouraging this, it is easier said than done to have the hotel companies apply this.
... explanation of meeting planner's hotel hassles snipped ...
It is frustrating, but we are where we are. All we can do is try and encourage them to change… but in my experience over the last few years, that is not enough. I am unsure what else can be done.
I wonder if it's worth talking to the IETF meeting organisers? IIUC they use a third party reservation service. {I forget its name.] On-line bookings "just work" with the meeting and overflow hotels. IETF meetings are larger and more frequent than RIPE meetings. So maybe that makes a difference.
On 12 Jan 2018, at 17:06, Jim Reid <jim@rfc1035.com> wrote:
On 12 Jan 2018, at 16:43, Denesh Bhabuta <dblists@icloud.com> wrote:
Whilst I agree that we should be encouraging this, it is easier said than done to have the hotel companies apply this.
... explanation of meeting planner's hotel hassles snipped ...
It is frustrating, but we are where we are. All we can do is try and encourage them to change… but in my experience over the last few years, that is not enough. I am unsure what else can be done.
I wonder if it's worth talking to the IETF meeting organisers? IIUC they use a third party reservation service. {I forget its name.] On-line bookings "just work" with the meeting and overflow hotels. IETF meetings are larger and more frequent than RIPE meetings. So maybe that makes a difference.
I think you might mean passkey.com <http://passkey.com/> - but IETF, nor NANOG use them all the time. It is city dependant and also relies on a number of hotels in the city to be loaded up in to the system, to be of any use… plus it requires some organisation to subscribe to passkey - seeing as they do not mention what the subscription rates are, I expect this to be extremely expensive. UKNOF used passkey when it had a meeting in Belfast, but that was because we were dealing with Belfast City’s marketing department and they have the contract with Passkey.com <http://passkey.com/> and the relationship with all the hotels in the city. We have not had any other opportunities to use it elsewhere because no other organisations we have dealt with have has a passkey subscription. NANOG, coming up in in Atlanta are offering the Loews hotel via passkey… the last meeting in San Juan was directly online with the hotel. IETF 101 in London.. the two Hiltons are being offered via direct Hilton Guest List manager links (as I mentioned in my previous email, Hilton are very good at this), whilst the Novotel requires people to ring up and quote a code and book via phone. Regards Denesh
participants (3)
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Denesh Bhabuta -
Jim Reid -
Ole Jacobsen