Dear colleagues, while the minutes of our RIPE44 session of the Routing WG have long been prepared by Arife (thanks a lot for that), I would want to apologize my neglect in not sending them out in a timely manner. This has slipped, and I take this as a personal action to improve significantly for this meeting. Please find the minutes below. ----- RIPE 44, Amsterdam Routing Working Group Session 28-January-2002 Minutes Chair: Joachim Schmitz - JS395-RIPE Co-chair: Joao Damas - joao@psg.com Scribe: Arife Vural - AC10172-RIPE -- thank you!! Participants: 99 A. Preliminaries Joachim Schmitz welcomed us all to the meeting and declared it open. The Participant's list was then handed out by the chair and Arife Vural from RIPE-NCC volunteered to take the minutes. Joachim Schmitz mentioned the overlap between Routing and DNS and IPv6. He will try to avoid overlaps but it may not be ruled out entirely. During the second slot of Routing WG there will be some issues discussed of IPv6 routing. The minutes of the previous meeting at RIPE43 were approved. There is no change to the agenda which was published before RIPE44. B. Previous meetings actions 40.R1 Creating multi-homing doc is in progress Philip Smith and Joachim Schmitz had been discussing this offline. Joachim Schmitz suggested to drop this item until they may come up with something. Philip Smith thinks everything is ready about the doc but he could not find the time to write them down. 41.R1 Work on RPSLng, M.Blanchet, D.Kessens, F.Parent, J.Schmitz, RIPE NCC. 41.R2 Work on RRCC, RIPE NCC 42.R1 Implement objects in database for unallocated IP address space, RIPE NCC 42.R2 Arrange with other registries coverage of complete unallocated IP address space, RIPE NCC. 42.R3 Identify unallocated IP address space in RIS, RIS team. C. Co-chair of Routing-WG Joachim Schmitz said that Joao had already acted as an interim chairman when Joachim could not attend the meeting and he had done a good job. Also, he has been instrumental in several projects in the past related to the work of the Routing WG as the RRCC project. So, Joachim proposed Joao be co-chair of Routing-WG. Joao was accepted. After this assignment, Joachim is looking for another co-chair in case of absence of Joao and Joachim. If anyone has a candidate, let Joachim or Joao know. D. Allocated Space, Status and Next Steps, Shane Kerr. Slides are accessible from http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/archive/ripe-44/presentations/ripe44-routi... -allocated/ Shane explained what their motivation is to publish allocated address space in the RIPE region. He said that he would like to help people to update their filters by using this data. As a first step, obviously the internal and whois DB must be made consistent. Joachim Schmitz suggested to go and verify the unallocated address space and then have seen how much of the unallocated space is announced. Results get from ftp://ftp.ripe.net/ripe/stats/issued/ Beyond Allocated Space, Shane gave a quick overview about the RRCC project which provides user to find out the inconsistencies between whois DB and routing tables. Now, user can get an e-mail report in case of inconsistencies. Source code of the tool is open to everyone and can be downloaded from ftp://ftp.ripe.net/ripe/dbase/software/RRCC-0.2.tar.gz E. Randy was not in Amsterdam and his presentation was cancelled. F. Internet Routing Table Analysis Update, Philip Smith. http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/archive/ripe-44/presentations/ripe44-routi... -bgptable.pdf Philip Smith presented the latest changes and his observation of the Weekly Routing Table Report. He added LACNIC into the report. He pointed out the very high number of prefixes /24:65807 CIDR Report (second part of Philip Smiths' presentation) During the last couple of months, the increase in the number of aggregates continues and growing of the BGP Routing Table is slow. 2002 looks better in aggregation and growing is slow but it looks as if the trend in 2003 develops more towards earlier steep increases seen. The reasons behind that are still unknown, but the purpose of the CIDR report is diagnosis rather than analysis. Christian Panigl: When you look through PS reports, RIPE region is doing a good aggregation. G. Routing Information Services, Status and Plans, Matthew Williams. Slides at http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/archive/ripe-44/presentations/ripe44-routi... -ris/ Matthew Williams presented the latest status of RIS Project. The RIS Project is looking for a new location in Mea-East and Middle-East. There are new developments like RIS BGP Beacons, RISng, PrefixInuse utility. Also there are some ongoing projects. MyAS is one of them which allows network operators to view their AS number in global routing tables. Beyond that, Matthew presented how DDos attacks on DNS root servers is seen by RIS. H. RISng - Technical Overview, James Aldridge. Slides at http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/archive/ripe-44/presentations/ripe44-routi... -risng/ James Aldridge gave a technical overview of the new generation of RIS DB. Running RIS DB has some bottlenecks in central server structure. To sort it out a distributed service structure had been developed. Also James Aldridge presented some graphs which showed how the ms-SQL worm became visible in routing tables and how it is observed by RIS. Slides at http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/archive/ripe-44/presentations/ripe44-routi... -ms-sql.pdf I. BGP Beacon Data and Other Statistics, Henk Uijterwaal. Slides at http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/archive/ripe-44/presentations/ripe44-routi... -beacon/ Henk Uijterwaal presented the analysis he has done by using RIS BGP Beacon data. Also, he presented the statistics about AS numbers, and Prefixes. One of the interesting point in his presentation, one out of 3 ASes is never seen on routing tables. Ouestions? Comments. Christian Panigl: How did Henk produce those numbers like single-home or multi-homed by looking at the data only IX points? At that point another question comes up, how much of the Internet is seen by RIS? Henk Uijterwaal: This is difficult to tell, comparing data with other Internet studies and with assigned address space indicate a certain level of completeness. Much of the global AS topology should be captured, but definitely not the majority of local configurations - after all RIS tests only at certain sample points in the topology (definition of local?) Christian Panigl: What happens if a prefix is re-announced before withdrawal has finished propagating? This could be tested with RIPE RIS Beacons to find out why route-flap damping does not work as expected. Christian Panigl: Is it possible to provide data which architectures do many withdrawals? It may be deducted to a certain extent. Regarding version of router operating systems this is not necessarily obvious. Wilfried Woeber: RIS does not see the entire picture and because of that it is not right to make generalization. Joachim Schmitz proposed to find out how much of the Internet is seen by the RIS. Also he suggested to be more careful when phrasing statements about the status of the Internet, or drawing conclusions on a general level. Christian Panigl said that RIS is doing a great job. J. RPSLng, the new draft, Joao Luis Silva Damas. Joao talked about RPSLng Internet Draft he published last Xmas. There has been some discussions about it recently on the mailing lists. The intention was to publish the second version of the draft before the RIPE meeting but as it seems discussion was picking up recently. Joao thinks it's better to publish it after the RIPE Meeting in two weeks time. At the same time, the RIPE NCC is doing preliminary work on implementing the draft. It is very important to try to implement it before moving on as the implementation effort would show possible problems in the draft. Larry Blunk from Merit reports that their implementation is almost ready as well. Finally, Joao reports that he submitted the draft as personal draft but suggests that successive ones may be submitted from the IETF RP3 WG. K. Operational Feedback to IP Equipment Vendors, V.Gill. Slides at http://www.vijaygill.com/nanog26/feedback.ppt This talk is given by Joachim Schmitz rather than his colleague V. Gill. If people are interested to learn more, he is reachable at vijaygill9@aol.com Vijay reports on observations during operations and points out problems with existing router platforms. Questions? There was a discussion about in band security, Joachim Schmitz suggested to take this offline. Christian Panigl: Is it possible to present which vendors have which problems? Obviously, this is of high interest for ISPs. Joachim Schmitz: Vijay should be able to provide you with any details you want Anonymous: These router are core router or not? Is human interaction considered or not or config changes? Joachim Schmitz: The routers studied are at various places of the AOL infrastructure. For the statistics, errors caused by working on the routers or changing configurations have been removed. Anonymous: Equipment ages and this may cause many failures too Comment: Are you seeing problems caused by any optical components? Joachim: It is difficult to say. If we are looking at WDM equipment, the electrical components have a certain failure rate. For the optical elements themselves (PICs) on the one hand there are not too many vendor options but so far they have also not shown up as being a particular problem. Z. AOB The RIPE NCC announces a new set of courses for LIRs about Routing Registries. Additional information is available at http://www.ripe.net/training/rr It can obviously not be avoided that WGs are running in parallel. Joachim explains that he knows about substantial overlap with the Database, IPv6, and EIX WGs. Joachim asked about who sees an impact with other WGs, and it turns out that the overlap with DNS (counting hands) is also not negligible. Joachim will work for the next meeting to minimize the overlap. If anyone has any comment or suggestions, please contact Joachim Schmitz. ----- Thanks Joachim --- JS395-RIPE -- standard disclaimer ---