Dear colleagues, As previously mentioned at RIPE 73, we are planning a project to clean up unused AS Numbers. You can find this presentation here: https://ripe73.ripe.net/archives/video/1456/ According to ripe-679, "Autonomous System (AS) Number Assignment Policies" if an organisation no longer uses as AS Number, it should be returned to the free pool so it can be reassigned: https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-679 There are currently around 6,600 ASNs in our service region (held or sponsored by 2,682 LIRs) that are not being advertised in the routing system. This represents around 22% of the ~30,000 ASNs assigned by the RIPE NCC. There are a number of legitimate reasons why an ASN might not be advertised in the routing system. However, it is also possible that the holder doesn't exist anymore or the ASN is no longer needed. Not only should unused ASNs be returned, but it's important to clean up out of date registrations, which affect the quality of data in the RIPE Registry. Our Proposal We plan to email the LIR or sponsoring LIR for each unannounced ASN and ask if the resource is still needed. We will group together ASNs that are sponsored or held by the same LIR to minimise the number of emails. We will ask if the ASN is currently being used or if there are plans to start using the ASN in the coming three months. Organisations can always request a new ASN in the future if they need one. If we do not receive a reply or if the ASN will not be used within three months, we will start the process of returning the ASN to the free pool. The deregistration process will take three months, during which time the LIR can still indicate that the ASN is needed. If the ASN is still needed, the validity of the assignment (such as the multihoming requirement) will not be re-evaluated. We do not expect any significant cost or impact on other services, as most of this process will be automated and we will not need to re-evaluate the assignments. Contacting all relevant LIRs will take less than six months. Please review this proposal and send any comments or other feedback before Thursday 6 April to <address-policy-wg@ripe.net>. Regards, Laurens Hoogendoorn Registration Services RIPE NCC
On 23/03/2017 14:18, Laurens Hoogendoorn wrote:
Our Proposal
We plan to email the LIR or sponsoring LIR for each unannounced ASN and ask if the resource is still needed. We will group together ASNs that are sponsored or held by the same LIR to minimise the number of emails.
Very often, companies get bought or merge and then get bought out again. A company that received an ASN 15 years ago and hasn't updated their whois and isn't announcing the ASN will be difficult to track down. Might I suggest a further option: if you do not receive a response within 3 months, that you attempt to contact the national default contact. For example, I volunteer to be the national default contact for *.il. I am sure there are others that know all or most ASNs in their specific countries and would be willing to assist to track down the rightful owner if they still exist. Regards, Hank
We will ask if the ASN is currently being used or if there are plans to start using the ASN in the coming three months. Organisations can always request a new ASN in the future if they need one.
If we do not receive a reply or if the ASN will not be used within three months, we will start the process of returning the ASN to the free pool. The deregistration process will take three months, during which time the LIR can still indicate that the ASN is needed. If the ASN is still needed, the validity of the assignment (such as the multihoming requirement) will not be re-evaluated.
We do not expect any significant cost or impact on other services, as most of this process will be automated and we will not need to re-evaluate the assignments. Contacting all relevant LIRs will take less than six months.
Please review this proposal and send any comments or other feedback before Thursday 6 April to <address-policy-wg@ripe.net>.
Regards,
Laurens Hoogendoorn Registration Services RIPE NCC
On Thu, Mar 23, 2017, at 18:26, Hank Nussbacher wrote:
Might I suggest a further option: if you do not receive a response within 3 months, that you attempt to contact the national default contact.
... or make the list of such cases public, rather than ask a given entity that may have his/hers/its own agenda.... -- Radu-Adrian FEURDEAN
On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 06:38:26PM +0100, Radu-Adrian FEURDEAN wrote:
... or make the list of such cases public, rather than ask a given entity that may have his/hers/its own agenda....
I think this idea has merit. a page that lists "lost" ASNs. Possible downside is that some randomer could claim to "own" it but it may be possible for the NCC to establish whether they have a right to it. rgds, Sascha Luck
On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 10:49:41PM +0000, Sascha Luck [ml] wrote:
I think this idea has merit. a page that lists "lost" ASNs. Possible downside is that some randomer could claim to "own" it but it may be possible for the NCC to establish whether they have a right to it.
just an addendum: if nobody claims it after $time, de-register it, of course. rgds, Sascha Luck
Hi Laurens, the plan below looks fine. Please go ahead. I've got a question about the ~300 reserved 16bit ASNs (as per the delegated extended file). Does the RIPE NCC have any plan to bring these into production as well? Kind regards, Elvis On 3/23/17 5:18 AM, Laurens Hoogendoorn wrote:
Dear colleagues,
As previously mentioned at RIPE 73, we are planning a project to clean up unused AS Numbers. You can find this presentation here: https://ripe73.ripe.net/archives/video/1456/
According to ripe-679, "Autonomous System (AS) Number Assignment Policies" if an organisation no longer uses as AS Number, it should be returned to the free pool so it can be reassigned: https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-679
There are currently around 6,600 ASNs in our service region (held or sponsored by 2,682 LIRs) that are not being advertised in the routing system. This represents around 22% of the ~30,000 ASNs assigned by the RIPE NCC.
There are a number of legitimate reasons why an ASN might not be advertised in the routing system. However, it is also possible that the holder doesn't exist anymore or the ASN is no longer needed. Not only should unused ASNs be returned, but it's important to clean up out of date registrations, which affect the quality of data in the RIPE Registry.
Our Proposal
We plan to email the LIR or sponsoring LIR for each unannounced ASN and ask if the resource is still needed. We will group together ASNs that are sponsored or held by the same LIR to minimise the number of emails.
We will ask if the ASN is currently being used or if there are plans to start using the ASN in the coming three months. Organisations can always request a new ASN in the future if they need one.
If we do not receive a reply or if the ASN will not be used within three months, we will start the process of returning the ASN to the free pool. The deregistration process will take three months, during which time the LIR can still indicate that the ASN is needed. If the ASN is still needed, the validity of the assignment (such as the multihoming requirement) will not be re-evaluated.
We do not expect any significant cost or impact on other services, as most of this process will be automated and we will not need to re-evaluate the assignments. Contacting all relevant LIRs will take less than six months.
Please review this proposal and send any comments or other feedback before Thursday 6 April to <address-policy-wg@ripe.net>.
Regards,
Laurens Hoogendoorn Registration Services RIPE NCC
Hi, +1. Please do the same for IPv4 space ;-) Regards Patrick On 23.03.2017 13:18, Laurens Hoogendoorn wrote:
Dear colleagues,
As previously mentioned at RIPE 73, we are planning a project to clean up unused AS Numbers. You can find this presentation here: https://ripe73.ripe.net/archives/video/1456/
According to ripe-679, "Autonomous System (AS) Number Assignment Policies" if an organisation no longer uses as AS Number, it should be returned to the free pool so it can be reassigned: https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-679
There are currently around 6,600 ASNs in our service region (held or sponsored by 2,682 LIRs) that are not being advertised in the routing system. This represents around 22% of the ~30,000 ASNs assigned by the RIPE NCC.
There are a number of legitimate reasons why an ASN might not be advertised in the routing system. However, it is also possible that the holder doesn't exist anymore or the ASN is no longer needed. Not only should unused ASNs be returned, but it's important to clean up out of date registrations, which affect the quality of data in the RIPE Registry.
Our Proposal
We plan to email the LIR or sponsoring LIR for each unannounced ASN and ask if the resource is still needed. We will group together ASNs that are sponsored or held by the same LIR to minimise the number of emails.
We will ask if the ASN is currently being used or if there are plans to start using the ASN in the coming three months. Organisations can always request a new ASN in the future if they need one.
If we do not receive a reply or if the ASN will not be used within three months, we will start the process of returning the ASN to the free pool. The deregistration process will take three months, during which time the LIR can still indicate that the ASN is needed. If the ASN is still needed, the validity of the assignment (such as the multihoming requirement) will not be re-evaluated.
We do not expect any significant cost or impact on other services, as most of this process will be automated and we will not need to re-evaluate the assignments. Contacting all relevant LIRs will take less than six months.
Please review this proposal and send any comments or other feedback before Thursday 6 April to <address-policy-wg@ripe.net>.
Regards,
Laurens Hoogendoorn Registration Services RIPE NCC
Hi, On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 08:02:48AM +0100, Patrick Velder wrote:
+1. Please do the same for IPv4 space ;-)
For IPv4 space, this is much easier. There is a yearly fee to be paid, so we know exactly whether something is still "in use enough" to warrant the rental fee being paid... (And for legacy space, the RIPE NCC has no mandate or authority to go hunting) Gert Doering -- APWG chair -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279
Sounds good, as does re-poking every 12-24 months. A public, or semi public, list of resources that have no holder could invite abuse. Don't do that. Richard Sent by mobile; excuse my brevity and the wall of text Gmail appends by default.
On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 01:18:32PM +0100, Laurens Hoogendoorn wrote:
We plan to email the LIR or sponsoring LIR for each unannounced ASN and ask if the resource is still needed. We will group together ASNs that are sponsored or held by the same LIR to minimise the number of emails.
what are the reasons not to approach the admin-c (or tech-c) of that registered ASN? -Peter
Dear colleagues, Thank you for the feedback and questions. We do want to emphasise that the goal of the suggested project is not to reclaim AS Numbers that are in use, but to clean up out-of-date registrations. At the moment, there is not really an incentive to return unused AS Numbers, because the registration of ASNs is free of charge. We see quite often that (sponsoring) LIRs forget AS Numbers if they are requesting changes. Our current proposal is a one-time project and we will archive the responses so that we only send one email. Some people suggested that we should perform these checks on a regular basis and this is possible if the community wants us to do so. During Assisted Registry Checks (ARCs), or if an ASN is changing sponsor, we already ask to some extent if the resources are still needed. The reason for contacting the sponsor and not the admin-c or tech-c is that the sponsoring LIR has the responsibility to liaise with the End User (and can do this in the language of the resource holder). From experience, we know that a lot of End Users are not aware that AS Numbers are distributed by the RIPE NCC, they are only aware of the contractual relationship that they have with their sponsor. During the deregistration process, we try to the contact the resource holder directly in different ways. This usually starts by contacting the admin-c and tech-c. Please let us know if there are any further questions before Thursday 6 April 2017. Regards, Laurens Hoogendoorn Registration Services RIPE NCC On 23/03/2017 13:18, Laurens Hoogendoorn wrote:
Dear colleagues,
As previously mentioned at RIPE 73, we are planning a project to clean up unused AS Numbers. You can find this presentation here: https://ripe73.ripe.net/archives/video/1456/
According to ripe-679, "Autonomous System (AS) Number Assignment Policies" if an organisation no longer uses as AS Number, it should be returned to the free pool so it can be reassigned: https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-679
There are currently around 6,600 ASNs in our service region (held or sponsored by 2,682 LIRs) that are not being advertised in the routing system. This represents around 22% of the ~30,000 ASNs assigned by the RIPE NCC.
There are a number of legitimate reasons why an ASN might not be advertised in the routing system. However, it is also possible that the holder doesn't exist anymore or the ASN is no longer needed. Not only should unused ASNs be returned, but it's important to clean up out of date registrations, which affect the quality of data in the RIPE Registry.
Our Proposal
We plan to email the LIR or sponsoring LIR for each unannounced ASN and ask if the resource is still needed. We will group together ASNs that are sponsored or held by the same LIR to minimise the number of emails.
We will ask if the ASN is currently being used or if there are plans to start using the ASN in the coming three months. Organisations can always request a new ASN in the future if they need one.
If we do not receive a reply or if the ASN will not be used within three months, we will start the process of returning the ASN to the free pool. The deregistration process will take three months, during which time the LIR can still indicate that the ASN is needed. If the ASN is still needed, the validity of the assignment (such as the multihoming requirement) will not be re-evaluated.
We do not expect any significant cost or impact on other services, as most of this process will be automated and we will not need to re-evaluate the assignments. Contacting all relevant LIRs will take less than six months.
Please review this proposal and send any comments or other feedback before Thursday 6 April to <address-policy-wg@ripe.net>.
Regards,
Laurens Hoogendoorn Registration Services RIPE NCC
Laurens, At 2017-04-03 16:18:01 +0200 Laurens Hoogendoorn <Laurens.Hoogendoorn@ripe.net> wrote:
Our current proposal is a one-time project and we will archive the responses so that we only send one email. Some people suggested that we should perform these checks on a regular basis and this is possible if the community wants us to do so. During Assisted Registry Checks (ARCs), or if an ASN is changing sponsor, we already ask to some extent if the resources are still needed.
My own suggestion would indeed be to perform regular (mostly or totally automated) checks, otherwise the number of unused AS numbers will increase over time and another one-time project will be necessary. Every system needs some way to fight against entropy. ;) Cheers, -- Shane
participants (10)
-
Elvis Daniel Velea -
Gert Doering -
Hank Nussbacher -
Laurens Hoogendoorn -
Patrick Velder -
Peter Koch -
Radu-Adrian FEURDEAN -
Richard Hartmann -
Sascha Luck [ml] -
Shane Kerr