Re: [anti-abuse-wg] Definition of Abuse
On 8/16/2016 6:08 AM, ox wrote:
unfortunately, I do not know what abuse is, yet.
An exercise that might help, but which is certain to have a poor signal-to-noice, is to ask everyone to post examples of what they think is abuse, or rather to post every example they think /might/ be abuse. The group then looks at the resulting compendium of examples and formulates an agreement of what examples are, and what examples are not, abuse. Then there is an attempt to formulate a concise description of what is in. It's likely that the examples will be pretty diverse, so that some sub-categorization might produce a more coherent labeling. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net
In message <4df1712f-8f90-ef7c-b02e-7adfe6ecab25@dcrocker.net>, Dave Crocker <dhc@dcrocker.net> wrote:
An exercise that might help, but which is certain to have a poor signal-to-noice, is to ask everyone to post examples of what they think is abuse, or rather to post every example they think /might/ be abuse.
See WHOIS record below. My contentions, briefly, are threefold: (1) That the WHOIS record shown below contains nothing other that cleverly constructed bovine excrement which was, with deliberate intent and malice aforethought, constructed for the clear purpose of deception as to the the real identity and location of the actual registrant of this block. (2) That the act of entering this deliberately deceptive information into the RIPE NCC WHOIS data base constitutes a flagrant and premeditated act of "abuse" against RIPE NCC, the RIPE Community, and indeed against all Internet users on this planet. (3) That the current practice of allowing, without question, unverifed and unverifiable "officers" of unverifed and unverifiable "companies" (which are themselves allegedly incorporated in dodgy and secretive "offshore" jurisdictions) to have and to hold RIPE number resources has proven time and time again to facilitate fraud, cybercrime, and spamming. This practice must end. ====================================================================== % This is the RIPE Database query service. % The objects are in RPSL format. % % The RIPE Database is subject to Terms and Conditions. % See http://www.ripe.net/db/support/db-terms-conditions.pdf % Information related to '82.221.130.64 - 82.221.130.127' % Abuse contact for '82.221.130.64 - 82.221.130.127' is 'abuse@orangewebsite.com' inetnum: 82.221.130.64 - 82.221.130.127 netname: ORANGEWEB descr: OrangeWebsite.com - Network org: ORG-IL351-RIPE country: IS admin-c: OTD3-RIPE tech-c: OTD3-RIPE status: ASSIGNED PA mnt-by: MNT-ADVANIA created: 2016-01-27T15:08:11Z last-modified: 2016-01-27T15:08:11Z source: RIPE organisation: ORG-IL351-RIPE org-name: Icenetworks Ltd. org-type: OTHER address: 60 Market Square address: Belize City, Belize e-mail: sales@orangewebsite.com abuse-c: OTD3-RIPE mnt-ref: MNT-ADVANIA mnt-by: MNT-ADVANIA created: 2014-11-05T10:30:10Z last-modified: 2014-11-05T10:46:28Z source: RIPE role: OrangeWebsite.com Technical Department address: OrangeWebsite.com address: Klapparstigur 7 address: 101 Reykjavik address: Iceland abuse-mailbox: abuse@orangewebsite.com e-mail: support@orangewebsite.com admin-c: AK12182-RIPE tech-c: AK12182-RIPE mnt-by: MNT-ADVANIA nic-hdl: OTD3-RIPE created: 2013-12-16T09:41:11Z last-modified: 2013-12-16T09:41:11Z source: RIPE % Information related to '82.221.128.0/19AS50613' route: 82.221.128.0/19 descr: Advania / Thor Data Center origin: AS50613 mnt-by: THOR-MNT mnt-lower: THOR-MNT created: 2013-07-30T12:15:23Z last-modified: 2013-07-30T12:15:23Z source: RIPE % This query was served by the RIPE Database Query Service version 1.87.4 (BLAARKOP)
I have a question for the Chair: Is it the purpose of this WG to be a forum for repeated, tedious, longwinded and and libellous accusations that have heretofore not been substatiated by any evidence whatsoever? rgds, Sascha Luck On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 01:30:41PM -0700, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
See WHOIS record below.
My contentions, briefly, are threefold:
(1) That the WHOIS record shown below contains nothing other that cleverly constructed bovine excrement which was, with deliberate intent and malice aforethought, constructed for the clear purpose of deception as to the the real identity and location of the actual registrant of this block.
(2) That the act of entering this deliberately deceptive information into the RIPE NCC WHOIS data base constitutes a flagrant and premeditated act of "abuse" against RIPE NCC, the RIPE Community, and indeed against all Internet users on this planet.
(3) That the current practice of allowing, without question, unverifed and unverifiable "officers" of unverifed and unverifiable "companies" (which are themselves allegedly incorporated in dodgy and secretive "offshore" jurisdictions) to have and to hold RIPE number resources has proven time and time again to facilitate fraud, cybercrime, and spamming. This practice must end.
====================================================================== % This is the RIPE Database query service. % The objects are in RPSL format. % % The RIPE Database is subject to Terms and Conditions. % See http://www.ripe.net/db/support/db-terms-conditions.pdf
% Information related to '82.221.130.64 - 82.221.130.127'
% Abuse contact for '82.221.130.64 - 82.221.130.127' is 'abuse@orangewebsite.com'
inetnum: 82.221.130.64 - 82.221.130.127 netname: ORANGEWEB descr: OrangeWebsite.com - Network org: ORG-IL351-RIPE country: IS admin-c: OTD3-RIPE tech-c: OTD3-RIPE status: ASSIGNED PA mnt-by: MNT-ADVANIA created: 2016-01-27T15:08:11Z last-modified: 2016-01-27T15:08:11Z source: RIPE
organisation: ORG-IL351-RIPE org-name: Icenetworks Ltd. org-type: OTHER address: 60 Market Square address: Belize City, Belize e-mail: sales@orangewebsite.com abuse-c: OTD3-RIPE mnt-ref: MNT-ADVANIA mnt-by: MNT-ADVANIA created: 2014-11-05T10:30:10Z last-modified: 2014-11-05T10:46:28Z source: RIPE
role: OrangeWebsite.com Technical Department address: OrangeWebsite.com address: Klapparstigur 7 address: 101 Reykjavik address: Iceland abuse-mailbox: abuse@orangewebsite.com e-mail: support@orangewebsite.com admin-c: AK12182-RIPE tech-c: AK12182-RIPE mnt-by: MNT-ADVANIA nic-hdl: OTD3-RIPE created: 2013-12-16T09:41:11Z last-modified: 2013-12-16T09:41:11Z source: RIPE
% Information related to '82.221.128.0/19AS50613'
route: 82.221.128.0/19 descr: Advania / Thor Data Center origin: AS50613 mnt-by: THOR-MNT mnt-lower: THOR-MNT created: 2013-07-30T12:15:23Z last-modified: 2013-07-30T12:15:23Z source: RIPE
% This query was served by the RIPE Database Query Service version 1.87.4 (BLAARKOP)
In message <20160816211600.GA93886@cilantro.c4inet.net>, "Sascha Luck [ml]" <aawg@c4inet.net> wrote:
I have a question for the Chair:
Is it the purpose of this WG to be a forum for repeated, tedious, longwinded and and libellous accusations that have heretofore not been substatiated by any evidence whatsoever?
It is with a combination of humility and amazement that I take note of Mr. Luck's personal interest in, and defense of the honor and reputation of as yet unidentified Russian cybercriminals. This exhibit of selfless compassion and commitment to the rights of total strangers puts even the likes of Mother Teresa and Pope Francis to shame. I do wonder however if The Chair should not perhaps lighten Mr. Luck's heavy burden by directly inviting the purported registrants of the 82.221.130.64/26 IP address block to come here, speak for themselves, and defend their own honor and reputations, as they are themselves uniquely qualified to do. Regards, rfg
On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 06:07:13PM -0700, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
It is with a combination of humility and amazement that I take note of Mr. Luck's personal interest in, and defense of the honor and reputation of as yet unidentified Russian cybercriminals.
Again, with the unsubstantiated accusations. Based on missing apartment numbers, no less. Perhaps you subscribe to Mr Goebbels' axiom that, if you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth?
This exhibit of selfless compassion and commitment to the rights of total strangers puts even the likes of Mother Teresa and Pope Francis to shame.
Like most fanatics, you fail utterly at humour.
I do wonder however if The Chair should not perhaps lighten Mr. Luck's heavy burden by directly inviting the purported registrants of the 82.221.130.64/26 IP address block to come here, speak for themselves, and defend their own honor and reputations, as they are themselves uniquely qualified to do.
You fail at secondary-school law too. They (whoever they may be) have to prove *nothing*. It is up to you to prove your accusations or shut the fuck up. Yes, I'm aware this is ad-hominem but I am sick, sick to my back teeth, of your insane, endless trolling on this list. You, sir, need to seek professional help, the sooner the better. EOC, Sascha Luck
Regards, rfg
Ron has presented several issues as he sees them. It is now up to ripe ncc to see what action if any to take on this cidr based on, say, inaccurate information presented in the paperwork. Meanwhile could this little fight please go back to the schoolyard? --srs
On 17-Aug-2016, at 6:52 AM, Sascha Luck [ml] <aawg@c4inet.net> wrote:
On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 06:07:13PM -0700, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote: It is with a combination of humility and amazement that I take note of Mr. Luck's personal interest in, and defense of the honor and reputation of as yet unidentified Russian cybercriminals.
Again, with the unsubstantiated accusations. Based on missing apartment numbers, no less. Perhaps you subscribe to Mr Goebbels' axiom that, if you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth?
This exhibit of selfless compassion and commitment to the rights of total strangers puts even the likes of Mother Teresa and Pope Francis to shame.
Like most fanatics, you fail utterly at humour.
I do wonder however if The Chair should not perhaps lighten Mr. Luck's heavy burden by directly inviting the purported registrants of the 82.221.130.64/26 IP address block to come here, speak for themselves, and defend their own honor and reputations, as they are themselves uniquely qualified to do.
You fail at secondary-school law too. They (whoever they may be) have to prove *nothing*. It is up to you to prove your accusations or shut the fuck up. Yes, I'm aware this is ad-hominem but I am sick, sick to my back teeth, of your insane, endless trolling on this list. You, sir, need to seek professional help, the sooner the better.
EOC,
Sascha Luck
Regards, rfg
In message <30F4A3CE-4188-4E10-BD70-410EC05BF993@gmail.com>, Suresh Ramasubramanian <ops.lists@gmail.com> wrote:
Ron has presented several issues as he sees them. It is now up to ripe ncc to see what action if any to take on this cidr based on, say, inaccurate information presented in the paperwork.
Just two small clarifications: 1) First, Suresh, you said "this cidr" (singular). Just to clarify, my concern is actually with all of these: ORANGEWEB: 82.221.102.192/26 82.221.103.208/29 82.221.104.0/25 82.221.130.64/26 213.182.41.144/29 213.182.41.160/28 213.215.7.36/30 213.215.14.44/30 IS-ORANGEWEBSITE: 82.221.104.128/29 82.221.105.0/24 82.221.106.224/29 82.221.108.32/28 82.221.111.0/24 82.221.128.0/23 82.221.131.0/24 82.221.133.128/25 82.221.134.0/29 82.221.136.0/24 82.221.139.0/24 82.221.143.0/24 All of the above are registered to the same single alleged Belize company, however as far as I have been able to determine, there exists no public registry of Belize companies, and the Belize governmental Companies Registry office does not even respond to email inquiries, which leaves open the question of what sorts of magic, astrology, witchcraft, or the reading the the entrails of disembowled routers RIPE NCC staff members employ when they attempt to merely verify the legal existance of such companies... mysterious procedures which all of us mere unwashed mortals are apparently not privy to, unless one happens to know the secret handshake, I guess. This is all about as transparent as concrete. 2) I actually don't anticipate RIPE NCC doing anything ay all about any of this for the simple reason that I haven't personally filed a formal "complaint" about any of this, nor am I at all likely to do so. Thus, RIPE NCC staff has no basis, at present, upon which to take any action whatsoever. I haven't and won't file a "complaint" about any of this because, I mean, who wants to be either known as, or treated as an annoying "complainer"? I sure don't. I object to the entire notion of a "complaint form". If I want to fill out one of those, I'll go down and stand in line at the DMV. If there ever comes to be such a thing as a RIPE "report form" however, I may use it someday to alert community members and RIPE NCC staff about things that I think the community would benefit from looking at more closely. But it is not my intent to *force* anyone in either RIPE NCC or the RIPE community to look at stuff they might benefit from looking at. I've donated a great deal of personal time to trying to find the truth, for the benefit of Internet users everywhere. If people in authority @ RIPE NCC don't want to look at what I've found, then I'm not gonna go jamming it down anybody's throat via a "complainers form". This isn't Walmart and I refuse to stand in the "complainers" line or to be labeled as a "complainer" just because I selflessly tried to do something good for my fellow homo sapiens. In fact, I only even posted the specifics of what I believe is shady about OrangeWebHost in response to Dave Crocker's request for people to post examples of what they, as individuals, perceive as "abuse". Regards, rfg
Hi Ronald, We would just like to highlight that the prefixes you have listed are all inetnum objects with the status “ASSIGNED PA”. This means they were distributed by one of our members from their allocation to another party. The RIPE NCC performs due diligence on the organisations that we directly distribute resources to (our members*). Our members are responsible for performing similar due diligence checks on their customers. This means that any reports or complaints should be directed to the LIR that issued these resources and performed the checks. In the RIPE Database you can find which LIR is responsible for the encompassing block: https://apps.db.ripe.net/search/query.html When querying for a prefix, click on the Hierarchy Flags tab and select "l - Returns first level less specific inetnum, inet6num or route(6) objects, excluding exact matches." This gives you the allocation object with contact information for the LIR. Kind regards Ingrid Wijte Registration Services Assistant Manager RIPE NCC *We also perform due diligence checks on End Users of Provider Independent (PI) resources, but that is not relevant here. On 17/08/2016 05:57, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
In message <30F4A3CE-4188-4E10-BD70-410EC05BF993@gmail.com>, Suresh Ramasubramanian <ops.lists@gmail.com> wrote:
Ron has presented several issues as he sees them. It is now up to ripe ncc to see what action if any to take on this cidr based on, say, inaccurate information presented in the paperwork. Just two small clarifications:
1) First, Suresh, you said "this cidr" (singular). Just to clarify, my concern is actually with all of these:
ORANGEWEB: 82.221.102.192/26 82.221.103.208/29 82.221.104.0/25 82.221.130.64/26 213.182.41.144/29 213.182.41.160/28 213.215.7.36/30 213.215.14.44/30
IS-ORANGEWEBSITE: 82.221.104.128/29 82.221.105.0/24 82.221.106.224/29 82.221.108.32/28 82.221.111.0/24 82.221.128.0/23 82.221.131.0/24 82.221.133.128/25 82.221.134.0/29 82.221.136.0/24 82.221.139.0/24 82.221.143.0/24
All of the above are registered to the same single alleged Belize company, however as far as I have been able to determine, there exists no public registry of Belize companies, and the Belize governmental Companies Registry office does not even respond to email inquiries, which leaves open the question of what sorts of magic, astrology, witchcraft, or the reading the the entrails of disembowled routers RIPE NCC staff members employ when they attempt to merely verify the legal existance of such companies... mysterious procedures which all of us mere unwashed mortals are apparently not privy to, unless one happens to know the secret handshake, I guess.
This is all about as transparent as concrete.
2) I actually don't anticipate RIPE NCC doing anything ay all about any of this for the simple reason that I haven't personally filed a formal "complaint" about any of this, nor am I at all likely to do so. Thus, RIPE NCC staff has no basis, at present, upon which to take any action whatsoever.
I haven't and won't file a "complaint" about any of this because, I mean, who wants to be either known as, or treated as an annoying "complainer"? I sure don't.
I object to the entire notion of a "complaint form". If I want to fill out one of those, I'll go down and stand in line at the DMV.
If there ever comes to be such a thing as a RIPE "report form" however, I may use it someday to alert community members and RIPE NCC staff about things that I think the community would benefit from looking at more closely. But it is not my intent to *force* anyone in either RIPE NCC or the RIPE community to look at stuff they might benefit from looking at. I've donated a great deal of personal time to trying to find the truth, for the benefit of Internet users everywhere. If people in authority @ RIPE NCC don't want to look at what I've found, then I'm not gonna go jamming it down anybody's throat via a "complainers form". This isn't Walmart and I refuse to stand in the "complainers" line or to be labeled as a "complainer" just because I selflessly tried to do something good for my fellow homo sapiens.
In fact, I only even posted the specifics of what I believe is shady about OrangeWebHost in response to Dave Crocker's request for people to post examples of what they, as individuals, perceive as "abuse".
Regards, rfg
In message <8dc16595-db14-e04f-9b72-c02c03673f28@ripe.net>, Ingrid Wijte <ingrid@ripe.net> wrote:
We would just like to highlight that the prefixes you have listed are all inetnum objects with the status ASSIGNED PA. This means they were distributed by one of our members from their allocation to another party.
The RIPE NCC performs due diligence on the organisations that we directly distribute resources to (our members*). Our members are responsible for performing similar due diligence checks on their customers.
Yes. Thank you for that additional useful and pertinent clarification. Unfortunately, although, as you have accurately noted, it is the individual LIR(s) in this specific case (i.e. "Icenetworks Ltd." aka "OrangewebSite") that are, formally speaking, responsible for performing due diligence on those other entities to which they provide number resources, I wonder if you might also be able to clarify for me exactly how any one of RIPE NCC's subserviant LIRs either can or may accomplish that task in any sort of a meaningful way. specifically in cases where the number resource assignee purports to be a Belizian corporate entity. I confess that this part still mystifies me. But perhaps I am just missing something obvious. As I've mentioned on this (AAWG) mailing list recently the department of the Belize government which is responsible for corporations does not appear to publish or make available any sort of registry of even the names of actual Belize companies. Also, that same Belize government department does not even appear to respond to email inquiries. These facts leave one to wonder how RIPE NCC LIR member Advania AB either did perform, or even how it could have performed _any_ form of due diligence on the purported Belizian legal entity Icenetworks, Ltd... an entity whose very existance it seems, cannot be verified in any meaningful way. Do either RIPE NCC and/or RIPE NCC LIR members, such as Advania AB have some sort of secret magic code or password or back-door method by which they are able to obtain corporate information from the government of Belize which, it seems, ordinary mortals cannot? Assuming not, then I remain utterly perplexed about what sort of due diligence Advania AB either did perform, or even what sorts of due diligence Advania even could have performed with respect to Icenetworks, Ltd., given the utter and total lack of information available about Belize companies generally. If you can clarify, that would be much appreciated. Regards, rfg
In message <20160817012222.GB93886@cilantro.c4inet.net>, "Sascha Luck [ml]" <aawg@c4inet.net> wrote:
Perhaps you subscribe to Mr Goebbels' axiom that, if you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth?
Can I get an official ruling on this? Does the above qualify as a "Godwin"? (And do I get a coupon for that? :-)
You fail at secondary-school law too. They (whoever they may be) have to prove *nothing*. It is up to you to prove your accusations or shut the fuck up.
You seem, um, emotional. For the life of me, I have trouble understanding why. Isn't it kind-of a fundamental tenet of your overall belief system that "If it isn't you network, then it isn't any of your business"? Well, OrangeWebSite and its multitude of blocks isn't your network. So what do you care what I say about it? If have defamed them, then what business is that of your's? If I have defamed them, they THEY are the injured party, not you. So why not let THEM come forward, show their faces, and sue in me open court? They can do that, if they want. I'm here. I'm not hiding. They can easily serve me with papers anytime they want. My address is in my WHOIS record for all to see... unlike this mysterious and shady OrangeWebSite thing, which apparently felt the need to hide behind BOTH a WHOIS cloaking service AND a fake mailing address. So, Sasha, what is YOUR interest in any of this? It seems to me that going by your own rules, this is none of your business and thus, none of your concern. Agreed? Regards, rfg
On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 07:42:05PM -0700, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
Perhaps you subscribe to Mr Goebbels' axiom that, if you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth?
Can I get an official ruling on this? Does the above qualify as a "Godwin"? (And do I get a coupon for that? :-)
No, it's a historical quote. And here is another one, from Tom Paine, that neatly sums up the "belief system" you attribute me: "He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself."
Hi Sascha, A quick FYI, the chair is currently on vacation if I'm correctly informed. A direct question to him, might take a bit longer than usually expected. Erik Bais
Op 16 aug. 2016 om 23:16 heeft Sascha Luck [ml] <aawg@c4inet.net> het volgende geschreven:
I have a question for the Chair:
Is it the purpose of this WG to be a forum for repeated, tedious, longwinded and and libellous accusations that have heretofore not been substatiated by any evidence whatsoever?
rgds, Sascha Luck
On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 01:30:41PM -0700, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
See WHOIS record below.
My contentions, briefly, are threefold:
(1) That the WHOIS record shown below contains nothing other that cleverly constructed bovine excrement which was, with deliberate intent and malice aforethought, constructed for the clear purpose of deception as to the the real identity and location of the actual registrant of this block.
(2) That the act of entering this deliberately deceptive information into the RIPE NCC WHOIS data base constitutes a flagrant and premeditated act of "abuse" against RIPE NCC, the RIPE Community, and indeed against all Internet users on this planet.
(3) That the current practice of allowing, without question, unverifed and unverifiable "officers" of unverifed and unverifiable "companies" (which are themselves allegedly incorporated in dodgy and secretive "offshore" jurisdictions) to have and to hold RIPE number resources has proven time and time again to facilitate fraud, cybercrime, and spamming. This practice must end.
====================================================================== % This is the RIPE Database query service. % The objects are in RPSL format. % % The RIPE Database is subject to Terms and Conditions. % See http://www.ripe.net/db/support/db-terms-conditions.pdf
% Information related to '82.221.130.64 - 82.221.130.127'
% Abuse contact for '82.221.130.64 - 82.221.130.127' is 'abuse@orangewebsite.com'
inetnum: 82.221.130.64 - 82.221.130.127 netname: ORANGEWEB descr: OrangeWebsite.com - Network org: ORG-IL351-RIPE country: IS admin-c: OTD3-RIPE tech-c: OTD3-RIPE status: ASSIGNED PA mnt-by: MNT-ADVANIA created: 2016-01-27T15:08:11Z last-modified: 2016-01-27T15:08:11Z source: RIPE
organisation: ORG-IL351-RIPE org-name: Icenetworks Ltd. org-type: OTHER address: 60 Market Square address: Belize City, Belize e-mail: sales@orangewebsite.com abuse-c: OTD3-RIPE mnt-ref: MNT-ADVANIA mnt-by: MNT-ADVANIA created: 2014-11-05T10:30:10Z last-modified: 2014-11-05T10:46:28Z source: RIPE
role: OrangeWebsite.com Technical Department address: OrangeWebsite.com address: Klapparstigur 7 address: 101 Reykjavik address: Iceland abuse-mailbox: abuse@orangewebsite.com e-mail: support@orangewebsite.com admin-c: AK12182-RIPE tech-c: AK12182-RIPE mnt-by: MNT-ADVANIA nic-hdl: OTD3-RIPE created: 2013-12-16T09:41:11Z last-modified: 2013-12-16T09:41:11Z source: RIPE
% Information related to '82.221.128.0/19AS50613'
route: 82.221.128.0/19 descr: Advania / Thor Data Center origin: AS50613 mnt-by: THOR-MNT mnt-lower: THOR-MNT created: 2013-07-30T12:15:23Z last-modified: 2013-07-30T12:15:23Z source: RIPE
% This query was served by the RIPE Database Query Service version 1.87.4 (BLAARKOP)
No evidence? Belize-based company's entry in RIPE DB is okay? 17 августа 2016 г. 0:16:00 GMT+03:00, "Sascha Luck [ml]" <aawg@c4inet.net> пишет:
I have a question for the Chair:
Is it the purpose of this WG to be a forum for repeated, tedious, longwinded and and libellous accusations that have heretofore not been substatiated by any evidence whatsoever?
rgds, Sascha Luck
On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 01:30:41PM -0700, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
See WHOIS record below.
My contentions, briefly, are threefold:
(1) That the WHOIS record shown below contains nothing other that cleverly constructed bovine excrement which was, with
deliberate
intent and malice aforethought, constructed for the clear
purpose of
deception as to the the real identity and location of the
actual
registrant of this block.
(2) That the act of entering this deliberately deceptive
information
into the RIPE NCC WHOIS data base constitutes a flagrant and premeditated act of "abuse" against RIPE NCC, the RIPE
Community,
and indeed against all Internet users on this planet.
(3) That the current practice of allowing, without question,
unverifed
and unverifiable "officers" of unverifed and unverifiable "companies" (which are themselves allegedly incorporated in dodgy and secretive "offshore" jurisdictions) to have and to hold RIPE number resources has proven time and time again to facilitate fraud, cybercrime, and spamming. This practice must end.
====================================================================== % This is the RIPE Database query service. % The objects are in RPSL format. % % The RIPE Database is subject to Terms and Conditions. % See http://www.ripe.net/db/support/db-terms-conditions.pdf
% Information related to '82.221.130.64 - 82.221.130.127'
% Abuse contact for '82.221.130.64 - 82.221.130.127' is
'abuse@orangewebsite.com'
inetnum: 82.221.130.64 - 82.221.130.127 netname: ORANGEWEB descr: OrangeWebsite.com - Network org: ORG-IL351-RIPE country: IS admin-c: OTD3-RIPE tech-c: OTD3-RIPE status: ASSIGNED PA mnt-by: MNT-ADVANIA created: 2016-01-27T15:08:11Z last-modified: 2016-01-27T15:08:11Z source: RIPE
organisation: ORG-IL351-RIPE org-name: Icenetworks Ltd. org-type: OTHER address: 60 Market Square address: Belize City, Belize e-mail: sales@orangewebsite.com abuse-c: OTD3-RIPE mnt-ref: MNT-ADVANIA mnt-by: MNT-ADVANIA created: 2014-11-05T10:30:10Z last-modified: 2014-11-05T10:46:28Z source: RIPE
role: OrangeWebsite.com Technical Department address: OrangeWebsite.com address: Klapparstigur 7 address: 101 Reykjavik address: Iceland abuse-mailbox: abuse@orangewebsite.com e-mail: support@orangewebsite.com admin-c: AK12182-RIPE tech-c: AK12182-RIPE mnt-by: MNT-ADVANIA nic-hdl: OTD3-RIPE created: 2013-12-16T09:41:11Z last-modified: 2013-12-16T09:41:11Z source: RIPE
% Information related to '82.221.128.0/19AS50613'
route: 82.221.128.0/19 descr: Advania / Thor Data Center origin: AS50613 mnt-by: THOR-MNT mnt-lower: THOR-MNT created: 2013-07-30T12:15:23Z last-modified: 2013-07-30T12:15:23Z source: RIPE
% This query was served by the RIPE Database Query Service version
1.87.4 (BLAARKOP)
-- Простите за краткость, создано в K-9 Mail.
In message <97094.1471379441@server1.tristatelogic.com>, I wrote:
... organisation: ORG-IL351-RIPE org-name: Icenetworks Ltd. org-type: OTHER address: 60 Market Square address: Belize City, Belize
Following up on this briefly, I need to point out that the the above street address is deliberately incomplete. It fails to include a specific P.O. box number, as all other users of this exact same street address do, as can be seen in the following links: https://offshoreleaks.icij.org/nodes/235800 http://www.ifsc.gov.bz/licensed-service-providers/list-a/ http://www.gusbourneplc.com/uploads/document/file/21/Circular_20-_20pdf_207.... ("Shellproof PLC")
role: OrangeWebsite.com Technical Department address: OrangeWebsite.com address: Klapparstigur 7 address: 101 Reykjavik address: Iceland
The above RIPE WHOIS information is also deliberately incomplete. It provides only the general address of a large multi-story apartment building, but it deliberately omits the specific apartment number. Thus, the entire registration of the 82.221.130.64/26 block is deliberately and completely untraceable: http://fasteignir.visir.is/property/180426
On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 05:06:29PM -0700, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
role: OrangeWebsite.com Technical Department address: OrangeWebsite.com address: Klapparstigur 7 address: 101 Reykjavik address: Iceland
The above RIPE WHOIS information is also deliberately incomplete. It provides only the general address of a large multi-story apartment building, but it deliberately omits the specific apartment number.
A searchable directory of companies in Iceland is available at http://www.firmaskra.is/ . A search there shows that: 1) there no registered business whose name resembles even vaguely "OrangeWebsite" located at that address, or even in the whole Iceland. 2) among the registered businesses located at that address, one can see a house constructor, some accommodation businesses, a car rental, a van delivery service, a tax accountant, a pet business, a distillery and something else, but nothing to do with the Internet. furio
On Tue, 16 Aug 2016 13:30:41 -0700 "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg@tristatelogic.com> wrote:
In message <4df1712f-8f90-ef7c-b02e-7adfe6ecab25@dcrocker.net>, Dave Crocker <dhc@dcrocker.net> wrote:
An exercise that might help, but which is certain to have a poor signal-to-noice, is to ask everyone to post examples of what they think is abuse, or rather to post every example they think /might/ be abuse.
See WHOIS record below. My contentions, briefly, are threefold: (1) That the WHOIS record shown below contains nothing other that which was, with <snip>
Okay, so, regarding the subject of Definition of abuse, what we have up to now: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "The non sanctioned use of a resource to infringe upon the usage rights of another resource" Current discussions about what needs to be added still? (add if I am missing anyone or anything please) (1) Gert Doering suggested that "there are legal reason why someone could infringe on someon else's use rights" - added the 'non sanctioned' - seems fine now, Gert? (2) unauthorized access / hacking / and/or breaking in ( Dave Crocker - abuse concerns unauthorized access ) (Andre - breaking in is crime, abuse is use something for bad purpose ) (3) causing damage to others ( Dave Crocker - "and to actions that inflict damage on others" ) ( Michele Neylon - I like the idea of “damage” or “harm” on others The “infringe on usage .. “ thing didn’t seem very clear to me and I don’t see how that would apply to spam etc) (Andre - damage is a result of an action or result of abuse? crime?) (4) Fake WHOIS records (Ronald F. Guilmette some whois records are cleverly constructed bovine excrement ) (Andre - fake/wrong whois records - are not abuse ) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Are fake whois records abuse? I think this is an excellent question and requires discussion. Personally I think filing fake information to a resource is actually a crime called fraud. I am sure that this is also a crime under Dutch law and that the Dutch Law enforcement should investigate this? But, imho, fake whois records and/or incorrect whois records, is not abuse. Andre
participants (9)
-
Dave Crocker -
Erik Bais - A2B Internet -
furio ercolessi -
Ingrid Wijte -
ox -
Ronald F. Guilmette -
Sascha Luck [ml] -
Sergey -
Suresh Ramasubramanian