Colleagues It is just 25 years since I moved to the Netherlands to join the RIPE NCC and become an active member of the RIPE community. It is also exactly 6 weeks to my 70th birthday. So it seems like a good day to write about the RIPE Database that I have spent a quarter of a century supporting one way or another. Let me start with a recommendation, as I know many of you don't read the detailed explanations I write. I know you deployed reg-nr yesterday, but it can still be changed. I suggest you keep open the issue of the attribute name until the RIPE Meeting. Discuss it in the Database session, then make a final decision. Now the detail. Marco put forward this idea last November. There was quite a discussion for a few days. But that whole discussion was about the context. What this data means, what is related to it and how it can be used. It is interesting to note that during this conversation the term 'legal' was mentioned 61 times. In the problem and solution statements Marco proposed the term 'legal' is mentioned another 7 times. So I think it is a reasonable assumption that this data is strongly associated with legal and corporate issues. During that conversation no one mentioned the attribute name. On Wed, 29 Apr 2026 at 10:47, Edward Shryane <eshryane@ripe.net> wrote:
Dear Job,
On 28 Apr 2026, at 16:57, Job Snijders <job@bsd.nl> wrote:
Hello,
Is "reg-nr:" really the best name for this attribute? The attribute name looks very similar to the already existing "reg-id:". I think the community would benefit from clear disambiguation.
The NWI-21 proposal is named "registration number". We understand there can be different opinions on the best term and we appreciate the input. We chose "registration number" because it is widely used and clearly indicates it is the number assigned to a company during its official registration.
The name of the proposal is irrelevant. Yes the term 'registration number' is definitely widely used. I have a registration number on my bonus card for the local supermarket. It absolutely does NOT clearly indicate anything related to a company or any official, legal, national registration. As a term it actually means nothing on it's own. Only context gives it any meaning. Where it is positioned it has a much stronger RIPE association than a legal one.
This concern was also noted by Denis in this email:
https://mailman.ripe.net/archives/list/db-wg@ripe.net/message/A4JALNQYB7XVET...
On the 14th December, David (on behalf of the co-chairs) set a deadline of 22 December for feedback. Denis replied on 16 December with a suggestion to use "legal-reg:", but as there was no support for this proposal, the NWI moved into the implementation phase.
Absolutely correct, there was no support for my suggestion at the time. There was also no objection either. Nothing was said at the time. A few years ago I did a presentation on silence meaning consent. Not surprisingly we had no consensus on that idea either. So I raised a serious issue over this attribute name, there was no response and that issue still stands. It hasn't been addressed.
Regarding resource holders, it’s not quite correct to say that all of them have a "reg-id:". This term is only used for LIR organisations, not for end user organisations. Also, the term "reg-id:" is not used anywhere in the RIPE database.
Again this is correct. But let's put it in context. The vast majority of RIPE address space (4 and 6) is held as PA allocations. These are all held by RIPE NCC members (LIRs). They all have a reg-id. You are right that the reg-id is not contained in the RIPE Database. But the RIPE Database is only one of a number of RIPE tools and processors used by LIRs. Their reg-id is central to their RIPE experience. Within the RIPE Database all their data is related to their LIR organisation, with details held in their ORGANISATION object. Now we have a new data item in this object, reg-nr. Everything suggests that this is something related to RIPE. There is absolutely nothing to suggest this is in any way related to legal or corporate issues. Even your documentation (whois -v) says "reg-nr Organisation registration number." Organisation is a RIPE Database term, not a legal or corporate term. It took us 20 years to realise no one knows what admin-c means. At least it has only taken us 20 weeks to see the potential confusion between reg-id and reg-nr. We can choose any name we want for this attribute. Why not choose one that immediately suggests it has some legal context rather than one that has a high risk of confusion. If there is any risk of confusion we should rename it. Let's not make this database even more confusing than it already is.
I thought Denis' suggestion of using "legal-reg:" was a good one.
Is there a particular reason to stick to "reg-id:"?
You even confused yourself here Job. You meant to say reg-nr here :) This perfectly illustrates the problem coming down the line if we keep this name... Enjoy the RIPE Meeting cheers denis
If we need to make the terms clearer, it might be best to look at improving the user interface and documentation.
Regards Ed Shryane RIPE NCC
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