Dear colleagues, Following is the implementation plan for the NWI-21 "Registration Number" feature. We plan to go live with this feature on Thursday 30th April, in time for the RIPE 92 meeting in May. Introduction ------------ Adding a registration number to organisations in the RIPE Database was proposed by Marco Schmidt at the Address Policy session at RIPE 91. See slides 14 to 17 : https://pretalx.ripe.net/media/ripe91/submissions/FJ7YSH/resources/RIPE91_Up... Following the RIPE Meeting, a Problem Statement was published to the DB-WG: https://mailman.ripe.net/archives/list/db-wg@ripe.net/thread/77NQDFTMHLIOLEH... Following the discussion, consensus was declared on the Problem Definition and the Solution Definition was agreed by the Database working group: https://mailman.ripe.net/archives/list/db-wg@ripe.net/thread/6S5ZIQ4TTCPNQFM... RIPE Database ------------- The Database team is responsible for adding a new "reg-nr:" attribute to the organisation object template in the RIPE database. The attribute will only be added to organisations co-maintained by the RIPE NCC and cannot be modified by the organisation’s maintainer. The value is free text, as the value will vary by registry. The "reg-nr:" attribute will be visible in filtered Whois query responses and will be included in the nightly database dump files once we have finalised updating the relevant documentation.. RIPE Database Web Application ----------------------------- The Database team will add the "reg-nr:" attribute to organisations in query and lookup responses, and will be highlighted as a RIPE NCC managed attribute. As "reg-nr:" is a RIPE NCC managed attribute, users will not be able to add a "reg-nr:" to an organisation object themselves. The web application will not provide a link to a registry website. After internal review, it was decided that this would introduce significant complexity and would require ongoing maintenance effort considering that registry platforms and URLs can change over time. Registry Team ------------- The Registry team is responsible for validating the existing registration number data before it is published. The data should be consistent, where possible, for each national or regional company registry. Also, the Registry team is responsible for ongoing updates to the registration number. Internal Registry Software -------------------------- The Software Engineering team is responsible for synchronising the registration number from the internal registry to the RIPE database, after the Registry team has performed its validation. The software will perform the following validation for an organisation’s registration number: * Not have any leading/trailing whitespace * Only consist of Latin-1 characters * Not contain a "#" (reserved for a comment in RPSL) * Maximum length 60 characters If the organisation is a natural person or government entity, then "reg-nr: Not Applicable" is published. Regards Ed Shryane RIPE NCC
Hello, Is "reg-nr:" really the best name for this attribute? The attribute name looks very similar to the already existing "reg-id:". I think the community would benefit from clear disambiguation. This concern was also noted by Denis in this email: https://mailman.ripe.net/archives/list/db-wg@ripe.net/message/A4JALNQYB7XVET... I thought Denis' suggestion of using "legal-reg:" was a good one. Is there a particular reason to stick to "reg-id:"? Kind regards, Job On Tue, Apr 28, 2026 at 04:39:51PM +0200, Edward Shryane wrote:
Dear colleagues,
Following is the implementation plan for the NWI-21 "Registration Number" feature.
We plan to go live with this feature on Thursday 30th April, in time for the RIPE 92 meeting in May.
Introduction ------------
Adding a registration number to organisations in the RIPE Database was proposed by Marco Schmidt at the Address Policy session at RIPE 91. See slides 14 to 17 : https://pretalx.ripe.net/media/ripe91/submissions/FJ7YSH/resources/RIPE91_Up...
Following the RIPE Meeting, a Problem Statement was published to the DB-WG: https://mailman.ripe.net/archives/list/db-wg@ripe.net/thread/77NQDFTMHLIOLEH...
Following the discussion, consensus was declared on the Problem Definition and the Solution Definition was agreed by the Database working group: https://mailman.ripe.net/archives/list/db-wg@ripe.net/thread/6S5ZIQ4TTCPNQFM...
RIPE Database -------------
The Database team is responsible for adding a new "reg-nr:" attribute to the organisation object template in the RIPE database. The attribute will only be added to organisations co-maintained by the RIPE NCC and cannot be modified by the organisation’s maintainer. The value is free text, as the value will vary by registry.
The "reg-nr:" attribute will be visible in filtered Whois query responses and will be included in the nightly database dump files once we have finalised updating the relevant documentation..
RIPE Database Web Application -----------------------------
The Database team will add the "reg-nr:" attribute to organisations in query and lookup responses, and will be highlighted as a RIPE NCC managed attribute.
As "reg-nr:" is a RIPE NCC managed attribute, users will not be able to add a "reg-nr:" to an organisation object themselves.
The web application will not provide a link to a registry website. After internal review, it was decided that this would introduce significant complexity and would require ongoing maintenance effort considering that registry platforms and URLs can change over time.
Registry Team -------------
The Registry team is responsible for validating the existing registration number data before it is published. The data should be consistent, where possible, for each national or regional company registry.
Also, the Registry team is responsible for ongoing updates to the registration number.
Internal Registry Software --------------------------
The Software Engineering team is responsible for synchronising the registration number from the internal registry to the RIPE database, after the Registry team has performed its validation.
The software will perform the following validation for an organisation’s registration number: * Not have any leading/trailing whitespace * Only consist of Latin-1 characters * Not contain a "#" (reserved for a comment in RPSL) * Maximum length 60 characters
If the organisation is a natural person or government entity, then "reg-nr: Not Applicable" is published.
Regards Ed Shryane RIPE NCC
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Dear Job,
On 28 Apr 2026, at 16:57, Job Snijders <job@bsd.nl> wrote:
Hello,
Is "reg-nr:" really the best name for this attribute? The attribute name looks very similar to the already existing "reg-id:". I think the community would benefit from clear disambiguation.
The NWI-21 proposal is named "registration number". We understand there can be different opinions on the best term and we appreciate the input. We chose "registration number" because it is widely used and clearly indicates it is the number assigned to a company during its official registration.
This concern was also noted by Denis in this email: https://mailman.ripe.net/archives/list/db-wg@ripe.net/message/A4JALNQYB7XVET...
On the 14th December, David (on behalf of the co-chairs) set a deadline of 22 December for feedback. Denis replied on 16 December with a suggestion to use "legal-reg:", but as there was no support for this proposal, the NWI moved into the implementation phase. Regarding resource holders, it’s not quite correct to say that all of them have a "reg-id:". This term is only used for LIR organisations, not for end user organisations. Also, the term "reg-id:" is not used anywhere in the RIPE database.
I thought Denis' suggestion of using "legal-reg:" was a good one.
Is there a particular reason to stick to "reg-id:"?
If we need to make the terms clearer, it might be best to look at improving the user interface and documentation. Regards Ed Shryane RIPE NCC
Hi there, For your information, I just noticed the new reg-nr listed for my organisation: organisation: ORG-ES691-RIPE reg-nr: 983 391 012 Inscrite au R.C.S ANTIBES It's clearly not a number... Regards, Laurent On Wed, Apr 29, 2026 at 10:47 AM Edward Shryane <eshryane@ripe.net> wrote:
Dear Job,
On 28 Apr 2026, at 16:57, Job Snijders <job@bsd.nl> wrote:
Hello,
Is "reg-nr:" really the best name for this attribute? The attribute name looks very similar to the already existing "reg-id:". I think the community would benefit from clear disambiguation.
The NWI-21 proposal is named "registration number". We understand there can be different opinions on the best term and we appreciate the input. We chose "registration number" because it is widely used and clearly indicates it is the number assigned to a company during its official registration.
This concern was also noted by Denis in this email:
https://mailman.ripe.net/archives/list/db-wg@ripe.net/message/A4JALNQYB7XVET...
On the 14th December, David (on behalf of the co-chairs) set a deadline of 22 December for feedback. Denis replied on 16 December with a suggestion to use "legal-reg:", but as there was no support for this proposal, the NWI moved into the implementation phase.
Regarding resource holders, it’s not quite correct to say that all of them have a "reg-id:". This term is only used for LIR organisations, not for end user organisations. Also, the term "reg-id:" is not used anywhere in the RIPE database.
I thought Denis' suggestion of using "legal-reg:" was a good one.
Is there a particular reason to stick to "reg-id:"?
If we need to make the terms clearer, it might be best to look at improving the user interface and documentation.
Regards Ed Shryane RIPE NCC
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On 2026-04-29 11:14, Laurent Pellegrino via db-wg wrote:
Hi there,
For your information, I just noticed the new reg-nr listed for my organisation:
organisation: ORG-ES691-RIPE reg-nr: 983 391 012 Inscrite au R.C.S ANTIBES
It's clearly not a number...
The label says nr but it is a free-form field. Probably because there is no universal definition of "registration number". $ whois -h whois.ripe.net -v organisation | grep -A5 reg-nr$ reg-nr Organisation registration number. A sequence of ASCII characters. -- Bengt Gördén Resilans AB
Yes, I understand, but that’s a weak argument. In this case, the value even contains words in French. Attribute names are inconsistently mixed between long and abbreviated forms (likely due to historical reasons and backward compatibility). They don’t clearly convey their purpose, values are free-form, and recent changes don’t seem to improve the situation. Just my two cents. Regards, Laurent On Wed, Apr 29, 2026 at 11:23 AM Bengt Gördén via db-wg <db-wg@ripe.net> wrote:
On 2026-04-29 11:14, Laurent Pellegrino via db-wg wrote:
Hi there,
For your information, I just noticed the new reg-nr listed for my organisation:
organisation: ORG-ES691-RIPE reg-nr: 983 391 012 Inscrite au R.C.S ANTIBES
It's clearly not a number...
The label says nr but it is a free-form field. Probably because there is no universal definition of "registration number".
$ whois -h whois.ripe.net -v organisation | grep -A5 reg-nr$
reg-nr
Organisation registration number.
A sequence of ASCII characters.
-- Bengt Gördén Resilans AB
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Dear Laurent and Bengt, Thank you for raising this observation. You are right, we will publish company registration numbers in their original national formats, which can vary significantly between countries. Some are simple numeric identifiers, while others include letters or additional qualifiers such as regional or state information. Keeping the original format makes it easier for users to look up the information in the relevant company registries. As in Laurent’s example from France, a company registration number often includes “RCS” followed by the city of registration. Kind regards, Marco Schmidt Manager Registration Services RIPE NCC On 29/04/2026 11:41, Laurent Pellegrino via db-wg wrote:
Yes, I understand, but that’s a weak argument. In this case, the value even contains words in French. Attribute names are inconsistently mixed between long and abbreviated forms (likely due to historical reasons and backward compatibility). They don’t clearly convey their purpose, values are free-form, and recent changes don’t seem to improve the situation. Just my two cents.
Regards, Laurent
On Wed, Apr 29, 2026 at 11:23 AM Bengt Gördén via db-wg <db-wg@ripe.net> wrote:
On 2026-04-29 11:14, Laurent Pellegrino via db-wg wrote:
Hi there,
For your information, I just noticed the new reg-nr listed for my organisation:
organisation: ORG-ES691-RIPE reg-nr: 983 391 012 Inscrite au R.C.S ANTIBES
It's clearly not a number...
The label says nr but it is a free-form field. Probably because there is no universal definition of "registration number".
$ whois -h whois.ripe.net <http://whois.ripe.net> -v organisation | grep -A5 reg-nr$
reg-nr
Organisation registration number.
A sequence of ASCII characters.
-- Bengt Gördén Resilans AB
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Colleagues It is just 25 years since I moved to the Netherlands to join the RIPE NCC and become an active member of the RIPE community. It is also exactly 6 weeks to my 70th birthday. So it seems like a good day to write about the RIPE Database that I have spent a quarter of a century supporting one way or another. Let me start with a recommendation, as I know many of you don't read the detailed explanations I write. I know you deployed reg-nr yesterday, but it can still be changed. I suggest you keep open the issue of the attribute name until the RIPE Meeting. Discuss it in the Database session, then make a final decision. Now the detail. Marco put forward this idea last November. There was quite a discussion for a few days. But that whole discussion was about the context. What this data means, what is related to it and how it can be used. It is interesting to note that during this conversation the term 'legal' was mentioned 61 times. In the problem and solution statements Marco proposed the term 'legal' is mentioned another 7 times. So I think it is a reasonable assumption that this data is strongly associated with legal and corporate issues. During that conversation no one mentioned the attribute name. On Wed, 29 Apr 2026 at 10:47, Edward Shryane <eshryane@ripe.net> wrote:
Dear Job,
On 28 Apr 2026, at 16:57, Job Snijders <job@bsd.nl> wrote:
Hello,
Is "reg-nr:" really the best name for this attribute? The attribute name looks very similar to the already existing "reg-id:". I think the community would benefit from clear disambiguation.
The NWI-21 proposal is named "registration number". We understand there can be different opinions on the best term and we appreciate the input. We chose "registration number" because it is widely used and clearly indicates it is the number assigned to a company during its official registration.
The name of the proposal is irrelevant. Yes the term 'registration number' is definitely widely used. I have a registration number on my bonus card for the local supermarket. It absolutely does NOT clearly indicate anything related to a company or any official, legal, national registration. As a term it actually means nothing on it's own. Only context gives it any meaning. Where it is positioned it has a much stronger RIPE association than a legal one.
This concern was also noted by Denis in this email:
https://mailman.ripe.net/archives/list/db-wg@ripe.net/message/A4JALNQYB7XVET...
On the 14th December, David (on behalf of the co-chairs) set a deadline of 22 December for feedback. Denis replied on 16 December with a suggestion to use "legal-reg:", but as there was no support for this proposal, the NWI moved into the implementation phase.
Absolutely correct, there was no support for my suggestion at the time. There was also no objection either. Nothing was said at the time. A few years ago I did a presentation on silence meaning consent. Not surprisingly we had no consensus on that idea either. So I raised a serious issue over this attribute name, there was no response and that issue still stands. It hasn't been addressed.
Regarding resource holders, it’s not quite correct to say that all of them have a "reg-id:". This term is only used for LIR organisations, not for end user organisations. Also, the term "reg-id:" is not used anywhere in the RIPE database.
Again this is correct. But let's put it in context. The vast majority of RIPE address space (4 and 6) is held as PA allocations. These are all held by RIPE NCC members (LIRs). They all have a reg-id. You are right that the reg-id is not contained in the RIPE Database. But the RIPE Database is only one of a number of RIPE tools and processors used by LIRs. Their reg-id is central to their RIPE experience. Within the RIPE Database all their data is related to their LIR organisation, with details held in their ORGANISATION object. Now we have a new data item in this object, reg-nr. Everything suggests that this is something related to RIPE. There is absolutely nothing to suggest this is in any way related to legal or corporate issues. Even your documentation (whois -v) says "reg-nr Organisation registration number." Organisation is a RIPE Database term, not a legal or corporate term. It took us 20 years to realise no one knows what admin-c means. At least it has only taken us 20 weeks to see the potential confusion between reg-id and reg-nr. We can choose any name we want for this attribute. Why not choose one that immediately suggests it has some legal context rather than one that has a high risk of confusion. If there is any risk of confusion we should rename it. Let's not make this database even more confusing than it already is.
I thought Denis' suggestion of using "legal-reg:" was a good one.
Is there a particular reason to stick to "reg-id:"?
You even confused yourself here Job. You meant to say reg-nr here :) This perfectly illustrates the problem coming down the line if we keep this name... Enjoy the RIPE Meeting cheers denis
If we need to make the terms clearer, it might be best to look at improving the user interface and documentation.
Regards Ed Shryane RIPE NCC
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i think the bikeshed should be magenta randy
You never change do you Randy. But then you wouldn't be you without sarcasm :) Clarity is better than confusion... On Fri, 1 May 2026 at 15:31, Randy Bush <randy@psg.com> wrote:
i think the bikeshed should be magenta
randy
Dear Denis,
On 1 May 2026, at 14:49, denis walker <ripedenis@gmail.com> wrote:
Colleagues
It is just 25 years since I moved to the Netherlands to join the RIPE NCC and become an active member of the RIPE community. It is also exactly 6 weeks to my 70th birthday. So it seems like a good day to write about the RIPE Database that I have spent a quarter of a century supporting one way or another.
Let me start with a recommendation, as I know many of you don't read the detailed explanations I write. I know you deployed reg-nr yesterday, but it can still be changed. I suggest you keep open the issue of the attribute name until the RIPE Meeting. Discuss it in the Database session, then make a final decision.
Thanks for your feedback, it is appreciated. The NCC is monitoring and collecting data and feedback on this new feature. We will keep this under review and later will decide if and how this attribute and the service around it can be improved. I will provide a progress update at the DB-WG session at RIPE 92 later this month. Regards Ed Shryane RIPE NCC
Hi Ed One thing I'm curious about that has not been mentioned anywhere. Who do you believe is the target audience for this piece of data? Cheers Denis On Mon, 4 May 2026, 17:11 Edward Shryane, <eshryane@ripe.net> wrote:
Dear Denis,
On 1 May 2026, at 14:49, denis walker <ripedenis@gmail.com> wrote:
Colleagues
It is just 25 years since I moved to the Netherlands to join the RIPE NCC and become an active member of the RIPE community. It is also exactly 6 weeks to my 70th birthday. So it seems like a good day to write about the RIPE Database that I have spent a quarter of a century supporting one way or another.
Let me start with a recommendation, as I know many of you don't read the detailed explanations I write. I know you deployed reg-nr yesterday, but it can still be changed. I suggest you keep open the issue of the attribute name until the RIPE Meeting. Discuss it in the Database session, then make a final decision.
Thanks for your feedback, it is appreciated.
The NCC is monitoring and collecting data and feedback on this new feature. We will keep this under review and later will decide if and how this attribute and the service around it can be improved.
I will provide a progress update at the DB-WG session at RIPE 92 later this month.
Regards Ed Shryane RIPE NCC
participants (7)
-
Bengt Gördén -
denis walker -
Edward Shryane -
Job Snijders -
Laurent Pellegrino -
Marco Schmidt -
Randy Bush