December 1994 - ripe-list - mailman.ripe.net

New Document available: ripe-125
by RIPE NCC Document Annoucement Service 07 Dec '94

07 Dec '94

New/Revised RIPE Document Announcement -------------------------------------- A revised/new document is available from the RIPE document store. Ref: ripe-125 Title: RIPE NCC Activity Plan Author: R. Blokzijl Date: 7 December 1994 Format: PS=31981 TXT=11515 Obsoletes: ripe-110 Obsoleted by: Updates: Updated by: Old: Short content description ------------------------- PLEASE FILL THIS IN FTP Access ---------- All RIPE documents and Internet RFC`s are available via anonymous FTP from host ftp.ripe.net. Type "ftp ftp.ripe.net". Login with username "anonymous" supplying your email address as the password. After logging in, type "cd ripe/docs/" followed by the command "get filename". The relevant filenames for this document are: ripe-125.txt for the ASCII version ripe-125.ps for the PostScript version Electronic Mail Retrieval of Documents -------------------------------------- Documents can also be retrieved from the RIPE document store using a mail server program. For more information on how to use the program, send email to: mail-server(a)ripe.net with "send HELP" in the body text. RIPE NCC Interactive Information Server --------------------------------------- Type "telnet info.ripe.net". This is a menu driven service allows the document store to be browsed. After reading documents you are prompted as to whether you would like to receive an email copy of the document you have just read. If you would, you simply enter your email address and the document will be mailed to you. Below are details of alternative methods of access. Gopher Access ------------- The same documents are available via a "gopher" server at "gopher gopher.ripe.net". WAIS Access ----------- There is also a "WAIS" server at wais.ripe.net, where there is a WAIS index for RIPE documents "ripe-docs.src" WWW Access ---------- For those who wish to add this home page at the RIPE NCC to their own customized home pages, it can be accessed as: http://www.ripe.net MIME Mail Reader ---------------- Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant Mail Reader implementation to automatically retrieve the RIPE document by FTP or mail server. SEND ripe/docs/ripe-125.txt

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Re: DANTE CERT Service
by houttuin＠terena.nl 07 Dec '94

07 Dec '94

Since I have personally been deeply involved in setting up the European CERT co-ordination service through ConCERT-in-E, I might as well let you know my personal opinions in this matter: > > ...well, from the point of view of the customers "asking" DANTE to > > provide this service, it's probably a coordinated action, isn't it? > If this is the case, that's fine with me. However, I've spoken to too > many people being surprised by the DANTA announcement, so it didn't > appear *that* coordinated. It was co-ordinated between a very limited number of customers and DANTE. Not between the European CERTs, who were co-ordinating very well through the ConCERT-in-E task force, or between that task force and DANTE. > > However the trust aspect and confidentiality somehow contradicts the > > idea of putting up a (commercial) tendering process.. > > It's not necessarily more commercial than the DANTE offering. At least, > it will give interested parties a chance to participate on equal terms. We were, through ConCERT-in-E, trying to get together as many interested parties in Europe and leave it up to them what the funding model would look like and who would provide the service in the end. That way, even if in the end DANTE would have been chosen to provide the service, everyone would at least have had a say in that decision.... Plus all parties would have been able to determine what exactly the service would consist of. > > Or have TERENA do the "tendering" (more like asking for qualified > > volunteers) and then provide the financial clearinghouse? That was another option that could have been chosen by the participating parties. > That's what I thought would happen, and such a Call for Tender has indeed > been prepared by TERENA, as far as I know, which has given me the feeling > that the TERENA activity in that area was pre-empted by DANTE's announcement > of a service. Maybe somebody from TERENA and/or DANTE cares to comment about > that? At least one of your customers is a bit confused about these semi- or > fully-parallel CERT/CC activities, so please clarify the situation! The only advantage that I personally see in the latest DANTE approach is speed. Consortium establishment is not done overnight. But the trade-off may very well be that a lot of countries that don't choose to buy the service via DANTE will still need some form of ConCERT-in-E. Result: at least two European CERT co-ordination services. I think (and I know many other parties think) that we were on the best possible way through ConCERT-in-E, and I was rather negatively surprised by this announcement (for which I do not blame DANTE at all BTW). I'll leave it to our member networks to convince each other that one approach is better than the other, or even to continue with both. That's not my job. I can give you my personal opinion though: I am still convinced that ConCERT-in-E is the right way to do this, even if it will take a bit more time and effort to establish the service. At the same time, we cannot forbid DANTE to offer this service of course. They do need more than 2 customers though for it to succeed.... Cheers, JH -//-

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Re: DANTE CERT Service
by Hannes Lubich 06 Dec '94

06 Dec '94

Hmmm, I would rather see a coordinated action here, rather than just one or the other organisation "taking over" a function, regardless of their other services. Wouldn't that be a classical scenario for a Call for Tender? Another thought: as the person responsible for the SWITCH CERT, my impression is that one of the foundations of running a CERT/CC is trust (ie.e. a customer has to trust me that I will handle his/her security problem in a knowledgeable AND confidential way, also a CERT provider has to trust his/her customers to a certain degree). Such trust can only be built over time, so an European CERT/CC should in my opinion be based on one or more existing national CERTs, with that particular experience in place (and I'm not only talking about purely technical experience, see above). CHeers --HaL PS: In the original message from DANTE, a corresponding DANTE mailing list was mentioned, and I have asked to be included in that list. So far, I have not received any feedback on this. Is this list active at all? PPS: Looking at the headers of the individual messages sent so far, this discussion is addressed to a lot of lists, and a number of individuals. Could we please keep this discussion within a defined set of lists? -- /==========================================================================\ | Hannes P. Lubich Voice: +41 1 268 15 55 (direct) 15 50 (line) | | SWITCH Head Office Fax : +41 1 268 15 68 | | Limmatquai 138 Mail : lubich(a)switch.ch | | CH-8001 Zurich Mail : S=lubich; O=switch; P=switch; A=arcom; C=ch; | | Switzerland Phys : 47 23'N, 8 33' E, GMT + 1 | | More : "finger @macHaL.switch.ch" (if switched on) | \==========================================================================/

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Re: DANTE CERT Service
by Wilfried Woeber, UniVie/ACOnet 06 Dec '94

06 Dec '94

Dear Hannes! #include <disclaimer.h> /* this is my personal view, not necessarily ACOnet's position */ >Subject: Re: DANTE CERT Service >From: Hannes Lubich <lubich(a)chx400.switch.ch> > >Hmmm, I would rather see a coordinated action here, rather than just one >or the other organisation "taking over" a function, regardless of their >other services. Wouldn't that be a classical scenario for a Call for Tender? ...well, from the point of view of the customers "asking" DANTE to provide this service, it's probably a coordinated action, isn't it? >Another thought: as the person responsible for the SWITCH CERT, my impression >is that one of the foundations of running a CERT/CC is trust (ie.e. a customer >has to trust me that I will handle his/her security problem in a knowledgeable >AND confidential way, also a CERT provider has to trust his/her customers to a >certain degree). Such trust can only be built over time, so an European CERT/CC >should in my opinion be based on one or more existing national CERTs, with that >particular experience in place (and I'm not only talking about purely technical >experience, see above). I fully agree with your line of thoughts! However the trust aspect and confidentiality somehow contradicts the idea of putting up a (commercial) tendering process.. As an aside, I don't see DANTE's position in this at all, given the fact that the service is proposed to be subcontracted. Why dont' the national CERTs get directly in touch with the group that actually provides the coordination/functionality (I do not use the term "service" here by purpose)? Or have TERENA do the "tendering" (more like asking for qualified volunteers) and then provide the financial clearinghouse? But maybe we again "need" an "appropriately coloured management" somewhere along the path... Yours, Wilfried. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wilfried Woeber : e-mail: Woeber(a)CC.UniVie.ac.at Computer Center - ACOnet : Vienna University : Tel: +43 1 4065822 355 Universitaetsstrasse 7 : Fax: +43 1 4065822 170 A-1010 Vienna, Austria, Europe : NIC: WW144 --------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: DANTE CERT Service
by Christian Panigl, ACOnet/UniVie +43 1 4065822-383 06 Dec '94

06 Dec '94

>Date: Tue, 6 Dec 94 09:42:37 +0100 >From: Dave Morton <Dave.Morton(a)ecrc.de> > >A service provider is not the correct type of organisation to provide >or organise a CERT. I would suggest the RIPE-NCC, they are already accepted as non-provider coordination center for Internet registries, why not for CERTs ? Just an idea and my personal opinion, I didn't ask them if they would like to take that burden and I don't have an ACOnet mandate ! Regards Christian --- Christian Panigl : Vienna University Computer Center - ACOnet --- --- VUCC - ACOnet : -------------------------------------------- --- --- Universitaetsstrasse 7 : Internet: Christian.Panigl(a)CC.UniVie.ac.at --- --- A-1010 Vienna / Austria : Tel: +43 1 4065822-383 (Fax: -170) ---

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Re: DANTE CERT Service
by Dave Morton 06 Dec '94

06 Dec '94

A service provider is not the correct type of organisation to provide or organise a CERT. Dave

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Re: RIPE DNS Hostcount November 1994
by Marten Terpstra 06 Dec '94

06 Dec '94

Of course Dave is right (wrong column ;-) The increase is over 48,000, not 39,000.... Sorry, -Marten ------- Forwarded Message Date: Tue, 6 Dec 94 07:05:24 +0100 From: Dave Morton <Dave.Morton(a)ecrc.de> To: Marten.Terpstra(a)ripe.net Subject: Re: RIPE DNS hostcount November 1994 Marten - you mean 49K not 39K ! DAve ------- End of Forwarded Message

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RIPE DNS hostcount November 1994
by Marten Terpstra 06 Dec '94

06 Dec '94

Hi all, Below is the RIPE DNS hostcount for November 1994. Slightly delayed because of the IETF, but still, here it is. - no special comments this time, a nice increase of almost 39,000 to over 973,000. We'll hit 1,000,000 surely in the December hostcount. - France slightly down, reason unknown. All output in the usual places on ftp.ripe.net:/ripe/hostcount, overview again appended. Cheers, -Marten RIPE DNS Hostcount Previous Count : Mon Oct 31 1994 This Count : Wed Nov 30 1994 CY SOA COUNTED DUPL REAL CHANGE ============================================================ al 2 0 0 0 0 at 508 27557 939 26618 + 1795 az 3 9 0 9 + 1 be 229 16611 275 16336 + 885 bg 17 158 21 137 + 22 by 1 0 0 0 0 ch 317 49017 329 48688 + 2395 cs 0 0 0 0 0 cy 11 80 4 76 + 14 cz 176 10573 171 10402 + 1119 de 2537 195768 5575 190193 +12920 dk 259 17306 213 17093 + 2560 dz 2 8 0 8 0 ee 49 1198 8 1190 + 137 eg 6 146 1 145 0 es 428 25014 189 24825 + 376 fi 533 65987 1183 64804 + 4831 fo 1 0 0 0 0 fr 1047 74682 1056 73626 - 8246 gb 1 24 0 24 0 ge 1 0 0 0 0 gr 162 3607 208 3399 - 146 hr 58 811 24 787 + 60 hu 105 7519 37 7482 + 679 ie 88 5450 80 5370 + 2204 il 191 12128 111 12017 + 2449 is 74 4253 32 4221 + 243 it 777 30687 904 29783 + 2769 li 4 30 3 27 0 lt 14 101 2 99 + 16 lu 31 539 7 532 + 100 lv 23 453 14 439 + 61 ma 1 0 0 0 0 mk 1 0 0 0 0 mt 1 0 0 0 0 nl 694 83957 2156 81801 + 5391 no 771 45055 872 44183 + 317 pl 388 10057 581 9476 + 880 pt 160 5457 72 5385 + 375 ro 32 500 36 464 + 45 ru 144 1705 155 1550 + 262 se 942 71236 2232 69004 + 1938 si 90 1537 39 1498 + 195 sk 69 1204 21 1183 - 30 su 249 4745 289 4456 + 264 tn 3 59 5 54 + 7 tr 72 1951 39 1912 + 260 ua 65 475 79 396 - 61 uk 2427 234437 21029 213408 +11334 va 0 0 0 0 0 yu 3 0 0 0 0 ============================================================ 13767 1012091 38991 973100 +48421 This is an overview of the History of the RIPE hostcounts. It only contains the totals. The totals for 1990-1991 should be considered rather unstable and unreliable because the program used then was not really tuned, plus the count was not done as regularly as it is now. Count : total hostcount for all European top level domains Delta : delta since previous count Delta % : delta as percentage of previous count Q Delta : delta over the past quarter Q Delta%: delta over last quarter as percentage of end of last quarter count For the Q Deltas I have not calculated those back before 1992, because the figures for 1990-1991 are not too reliable. *) Dec 1991 hostcount estimated at 135,000. Count Delta Delta % Q Delta Q Delta % ------------------------------------------------------------------- Oct 1990 31724 Nov 1990 33665 + 1941 + 6.1% Dec 1990 29230 - 4435 - 13.2% Jan 1991 43832 + 14602 + 50.0% Feb 1991 - Mar 1991 44506 + 674 + 1.5% Apr 1991 46948 + 2442 + 5.5% May 1991 - Jun 1991 63267 + 16319 + 34.8% Jul 1991 - Aug 1991 73069 + 9802 + 15.5% Sep 1991 92834 + 19765 + 27.0% Oct 1991 104824 + 11990 + 12.9% Nov 1991 129652 + 24828 + 23.7% Dec 1991 - Jan 1992 141308 + 11656 + 9.0% Feb 1992 161434 + 20126 + 14.2% Mar 1992 167939 + 6505 + 4.0% + 32939 *) + 24.4% *) Apr 1992 170050 + 2111 + 1.3% May 1992 182528 + 12478 + 7.3% Jun 1992 196758 + 14230 + 7.8% + 28819 + 17.2% Jul 1992 213017 + 16259 + 8.3% Aug 1992 221951 + 8934 + 4.2% Sep 1992 232522 + 10571 + 4.8% + 35764 + 18.2% Oct 1992 254585 + 22063 + 9.5% Nov 1992 271795 + 17210 + 6.8% Dec 1992 284374 + 12579 + 4.6% + 51852 + 22.3% Jan 1993 303828 + 19454 + 6.8% Feb 1993 322902 + 19074 + 6.3% Mar 1993 355140 + 32238 + 10.0% + 70766 + 24.9% Apr 1993 366164 + 11024 + 3.1% May 1993 385522 + 19358 + 5.3% Jun 1993 404930 + 19408 + 5.0% + 49790 + 14.0% Jul 1993 426827 + 21897 + 5.4% Aug 1993 451116 + 24289 + 5.7% Sep 1993 469356 + 18240 + 4.0% + 64424 + 15.9% Oct 1993 500018 + 30662 + 6.5% Nov 1993 533701 + 33683 + 6.7% Dec 1993 553357 + 19656 + 3.7% + 84001 + 17.9% Jan 1994 587135 + 33778 + 6.1% Feb 1994 623158 + 36023 + 6.1% Mar 1994 655164 + 32006 + 5.1% +101807 + 18.4% Apr 1994 693346 + 38182 + 5.8% May 1994 735317 + 41971 + 6.1% Jun 1994 760385 + 25076 + 3.4% +105221 + 16.1% Jul 1994 789747 + 29362 + 3.8% Aug 1994 834945 + 45198 + 5.7% Sep 1994 888398 + 53453 + 6.4% +128013 + 16.8% Oct 1994 924679 + 36281 + 4.1% Nov 1994 973100 + 38991 + 4.2%

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Re: DANTE CERT Service
by Bjorn Eriksen 05 Dec '94

05 Dec '94

>Or (a more positive note) is DANTE the right organization to >do the collection of money and subcontract the actual work >to another organization taht all parties trust to do the >(necessarily sensitive) coordination service right? No, they are absolutely not the right organization for this. --Bjorn

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Re: DANTE CERT Service
by Stephan.Biesbroeck＠belnet.be 03 Dec '94

03 Dec '94

I am very surprised by this announcement. The service announced here in in my opinion NOT a CERT service but a CERT coordination service. I have some questions/remarks with this : - How does this fit into the Concert-in-E proposal ?? - Such a european coordination body can only have success if : - it is supported by all the service providers in Europe. When dealing with security issues, you just can't differentiate between national research networks and commercial providers. - all service providers need to have trust into the provider of this service (sorry but I am afraid that this is not the case for DANTE). - there is only one such coordination service in Europe. You can't have several of such coordination centre. In that case you will miss "the coordination". - I am surprised that some organisation declares one-sided that it will take on this role (even if "some" national networks have asked so). Normally such a coordination task should be set up in cooperation with all the service providers in order to have success. But probably I am just misreading the announcement and it doesn't has anything to do with a CERT coordination Center. Please tell me the difference in that case. Best regards, Stephan Biesbroeck --- Stephan Biesbroeck Tel: +32(0)2-2383470 stephan(a)belnet.be Fax: +32(0)2-2315131 Service Support Team of the Belgian National Research Network, BELNET Howard Davies wrote : > DANTE is pleased to announce that, at the request of a number of > national networks, it proposes to create a European level CERT > service. > The objectives of the DANTE CERT service will be: > - co-ordination of incident handling between member CERTs and > with other incident response teams worldwide > - co-ordination of technical assistance to member CERTs > - maintenance of an information server on operational aspects > of computer security > - assistance for the establishment of new CERTs > - providing backup and support to resolve problems that cannot > be handled by a member CERT. > The DANTE CERT service will build on the expertise and experience > of the national CERTs that are already in place. An important > aspect of the organisational structure will be to minimise the > overlap of activities and to ensure that all available resources > are used in the optimum way. > The DANTE CERT will participate fully in existing international > bodies dealing with incident response and security. Full > membership of FIRST will be applied for. > As is DANTE's normal practice, many of the operational components > of the DANTE CERT activity will be sub-contracted; discussions on > how best to do this are already taking place with organisations > which are interested in carrying out this task. > The DANTE CERT service is expected to be established early in > 1995. Its priority will be to serve the networking organisations > in the European research community but other organisations may > also subscribe. Subscribing organisations will pay an annual fee > which will be set as a function of size of the community that the > organisation represents. > Individuals who wish to be included on the mailing list for the > announcement of further details should send a request in reply to > this message > Howard Davies > HD(94)276

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